Talmud Builders

    Bava Batra 47a

    Chapter 3 - Chezkat HaBattim

    גם: בבא בתרא דף מ״ז ע״א, פרק ג׳ חזקת הבתים

    English translation - Bava Batra 47a

    Translation: William Davidson Edition - English. Read alongside the Aramaic below; numbers match the passages of the daf.

    1With regard to an unconditional guarantor [ kablan ], from whom the creditor can collect even if the debtor is able to repay the loan, some say that he can testify on behalf of the debtor if the latter owns other land, and some say that he cannot testify even if the debtor owns other land. The Gemara explains: Some say that he can testify because he is like a guarantor, and some say that he cannot testify, as it is preferable for him that both fields be in the debtor’s possession, so that when a creditor comes to collect the debt, he will take what he wants, and not collect from the unconditional guarantor.

    2§ Rabbi Yoḥanan said: A craftsman does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership, but the son of a craftsman has the ability to establish the presumption of ownership. A sharecropper does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership, but the son of a sharecropper has the ability to establish the presumption of ownership. Both a robber and the son of a robber do not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership, but the son of the son of a robber has the ability to establish the presumption of ownership.

    3The Gemara asks: What are the circumstances under which there is a distinction between the sons of the craftsman and the sharecropper and the son of the robber? If they come to court with the claim that the item in question belonged to their fathers, then even these sons of the craftsman and the sharecropper should not be able to establish the presumption of ownership, since their claims are based on ownership by those who cannot establish the presumption of ownership. If the case is that they do not come to court with the claim that the item in question belonged to their fathers, but that they own the item in their own right, then even the son of a robber should be able to establish the presumption of ownership.

    4The Gemara answers: No, it is necessary to state this distinction in a case where the witnesses say: The prior owner admitted to their father in our presence that the property was the father’s and not stolen. The Gemara explains: With regard to these, the sons of the craftsman and sharecropper, it can be said that the sons are saying the truth, as their claim is substantiated by the testimony of the admission. But with regard to that one, the son of the robber, even though the prior owner admitted this, the son is still not deemed credible, in accordance with the statement of Rav Kahana, as Rav Kahana said: If the prior owner would not have admitted this to the robber, the robber would have brought him and his donkey to the taskmaster [ leshaḥvar ], meaning he would have caused him great difficulties. As a robber is assumed to be a ruffian, it is likely that the prior owner admitted this because he was intimidated, and not because the statement was true, so there is no evidence to support the claim of the robber’s son.

    5Rava says: There are times when even the son of the son of the robber does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership. What are the circumstances under which this is so? This is so, for example, in a case where he comes to court with the claim that the item in question belonged to his father’s father. Since his claim is based on its having belonged to one who did not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership, he too is unable to establish the presumption of ownership.

    6The Gemara asks: What are the circumstances under which one is considered a robber, who does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership? Rabbi Yoḥanan says: In a case such as where it is established that he is in possession of this field through robbery. And Rav Ḥisda says: Not only in a case where there is knowledge about this specific field, but even in a case such as one where he is a member of the household of so-and-so, a certain known criminal family at the time who kill people over monetary matters. Since people would be afraid to lodge a protest against them, members of this family cannot establish the presumption of ownership with regard to any land.

    7§ The Sages taught: A craftsman does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership. If he descended from his position of craftsmanship and no longer works at that craft, then he has the ability to establish the presumption of ownership with regard to items related to his former craft. A sharecropper does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership. If he descended from his position as a sharecropper, then he has the ability to establish the presumption of ownership with regard to land that he works and from which he profits for three years. A son does not have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership with regard to his father’s property, nor a wife with regard to her husband’s property. But with regard to a son who separated himself from his father’s finances, and a woman who became divorced, they are like other people with regard to this property, and have the ability to establish the presumption of ownership.

    8The Gemara asks: Granted, it was necessary to state that a son who separated himself establishes the presumption of ownership. If the baraita had not stated this, it would enter your mind to say that the father forgave the unauthorized use of his land by his son, and did not lodge a protest despite the fact that the land did not belong to the son. Therefore, the baraita teaches us that this is not so, and that the son does establish the presumption of ownership. But in the case of the woman who became divorced, it is obvious that she has no relationship with her ex-husband, so why is it necessary for the baraita to teach that she is able to establish the presumption of ownership? The Gemara answers: No, it is necessary to teach that she does not establish the presumption of ownership

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    בבא בתרא 47 עמוד א

    1קבלן אמרי לה מעיד, ואמרי לה אינו מעיד. אמרי לה מעיד כערב דמי. ואמרי לה אינו מעיד דניחא ליה דלהוו בידיה תרוייהו, דכי אתי בע"ח מאי דבעי שקיל.

    2אמר רבי יוחנן: אומן אין לו חזקה, בן אומן יש לו חזקה. אריס אין לו חזקה, בן אריס יש לו חזקה. גזלן ובן גזלן אין להן חזקה, בן בנו של גזלן יש לו חזקה.

    3היכי דמי? אי אתו בטענתא דאבוהון אפילו הנך נמי לא. אי דלא אתו בטענתא דאבוהון אפילו בן גזלן נמי!

    4לא צריכא, דקא אמרי עדים: ״בפנינו הודה לו״. הנך איכא למימר קושטא קא אמרי. האי אע"ג דאודי נמי לא מהימן, כדרב כהנא דאמר רב כהנא: אי לאו דאודי ליה, הוה ממטי ליה ולחמריה לשחוור.

    5אמר רבא: פעמים שאפילו בן בנו של גזלן נמי אין לו חזקה. היכי דמי? כגון דקא אתי בטענתא דאבא דאבוה.

    6היכי דמי גזלן? אמר רבי יוחנן: כגון שהוחזק על שדה זו בגזלנותא. ורב חסדא אמר: כגון דבית פלוני, שהורגין נפשות על עסקי ממון.

    Baraita

    7תנו רבנן: אומן אין לו חזקה, ירד מאומנותו יש לו חזקה. אריס אין לו חזקה, ירד מאריסותו יש לו חזקה. בן שחלק, ואשה שנתגרשה הרי הן כשאר כל אדם.

    8בשלמא בן שחלק איצטריך, סלקא דעתך אמינא: אחולי אחיל גביה, קמ"ל דלא. אלא אשה שנתגרשה פשיטא! לא צריכא,׃

    Tosafot

    קבלן אמרי לה אינו מעיד‎—Some say a Kahblohn cannot testify O VERVIEW The ברייתא states that there is a dispute whether a קבלן may testify on behalf of the לוה regarding a contested property in the possession of the לוה‎. Previously the ברייתא taught that a ‘regular’ ערב (or a מלוה, etc.) can testify on behalf of the לוה, provided the לוה has another field (besides the one being contested). תוספות discusses the view that a קבלן may not testify. ------------------------------ אף על גב דאית ליה ארעא אחריתי – The קבלן may not testify (according to one view) for the לוה, even though the לוה has other land – תוספות asks: תימה דמאי נפקא מינה דאי אתי מלוה וטריף את של קבלן – It is astounding! For what difference does it make to the קבלן that the לוה should keep both fields (including the contested field), for even if the מלוה will come and collect the sקבלן' field – אתי קבלן וקטריף את של לוה כיון דאית ליה ארעא אחריתי – The קבלן will come and collect the uncontested field of the לוה, since the לוה has another uncontested field – תוספות considers a possible solution: ואין נראה לומר כגון שיש לקבלן בינונית‎ – And it does not appear correct to answer that this is a case where for instance the קבלן owns average valued fields – וההיא ארעא שרוצה להעיד עליה נמי בינונית‎ – And that contested field which the קבלן wants to testify for on behalf of the לוה is also בינונית (average) – אבל ארעא אחריתי דאית ליה ללוה היא זיבורית‎ – However the other uncontested field which the לוה owns is זיבורית (inferior; below average value), in which case – דמפסיד כשיבא מלוה וטריף את שלו דלא יהיה לו לגבות אלא מזיבורית – The קבלן will lose if the מלוה will come and take away the sקבלן' field, for the קבלן will only be able to collect the זיבורית from the לוה‎ – תוספות rejects this explanation: דאם כן מלוה נמי לא יעיד ללוה אפילו אית ליה ארעא אחריתי כענין זה – For if indeed it is such a case where the ארעא אחריתי is זיבורית, even the מלוה should not be permitted to testify for the לוה even if the לוה has אחרא אחריתי in this same manner – A second difficulty with this solution: ועוד בכל ענין משמע דאינו מעיד דלא מפליג בין היא בינונית בין היא זיבורית – And additionally it seems that the קבלן cannot testify in any situation, since the ברייתא did not distinguish whether the ארעא אחריתי was בינונית, or whether it was זיבורית‎ – A final difficulty with the proposed solution: ועוד דצריך עיון בהניזקין (גיטין דף מט, ב) דנראה דמוכח התם‎ – And furthermore that additional contemplation is required in פרק הניזקין, where it seems evident from the גמרא there – דאם אין ללוה אלא זיבורית גם קבלן לא יתן לו אלא זיבורית – That if the לוה possesses only זיבורית, the קבלן is not required to give the מלוה, anything but זיבורית‎ – תוספות offers his explanation why the קבלן cannot testify: ונראה דהיינו טעמא דקבלן אינו מעיד ללוה אף על גב דאית ליה ארעא אחריתי‎ – And it appears to תוספות that this is the reason why the קבלן cannot testify for the לוה, even if the לוה has another field – משום דטריחא ליה מילתא למיקם עליה בדינא ודיינא – Because it is bothersome for the קבלן to get involved with a lawsuit and judges – וכשיהיו ללוה קרקעות הרבה לא יגבה המלוה מן הקבלן‎ – However if the לוה has many fields the מלוה will not collect from the קבלן, so assumes the קבלן‎ – הואיל ויכול לגבות מן הלוה בהרווחה – Since he can collect comfortably from the לוה, for there are many options – תוספות responds to an anticipated question: אבל מלוה מעיד ללוה בכל ענין אפילו אותה שמעיד עליה היא בינונית ואחריתי זיבורית‎ – However the מלוה may always testify for the לוה in any situation even if that contested field for which the מלוה is testifying is a בינונית and the other field is a זיבורית (where seemingly the מלוה stands to lose), nevertheless he may testify – דמשום איחלופי בינונית לזיבורית לא יעיד שקר – Because the מלוה will not testify falsely on account that the בינונית will be switched to זיבורית‎ – דמכל מקום יש לו שוה בשוה – For nonetheless he is receiving equal value for equal value – תוספות offers an alternate approach why the מלוה may testify: אי נמי ארעא אחריתי דכולה שמעתין כיוצא בו קאמר: Or you may also say that the phrase ארעא אחריתי in the entire גמרא means a similar land, but not an inferior land, for then there is a bias and they will not be able to testify. S UMMARY The bias of the קבלן is that the more fields the לוה has, the more likely the מלוה will collect from the לוה and the קבלן will have no need to be embroiled in a די"ת T HINKING IT OVER 1. תוספות writes that if the לוה has only זיבורית, the מלוה can collect only זיבורית from the קבלן‎. What will be the rule if the לוה has only זיבורית and the קבלן has no זיבורית, only בינונית or עדית, can the מלוה collect from the קבלן (the בינונית), or not? 2. There is a dispute in תוספות whether one would testify falsely if he would receive זיבורית instead of בינונית‎. What would be the סברא חיצונית; meaning what would be the thinking on one’s own without relying on proofs from sources.

    פעמים שבן בן גזלן אין לו חזקה כגון דקאתי בטענתא דאבא דאבוה‎—Sometimes the grandson of a robber has no Chazokoh ; for instance when he comes with the claim of his grandfather O VERVIEW רבא said (that even though ר' יוחנן taught that the grandson of a גזלן has a חזקה, nevertheless) sometimes a grandson of a גזלן has no חזקה; that is in a case where the grandson claims that he inherited this item from his grandfather the גזלן‎. Our תוספות discusses this issue. ----------------------------- תוספות asks: תימה לרבינו יצחק דאמאי אין לו חזקה הא טוענין ליורש – The ר"י is astounded; why does the grandson not have a חזקה, since we argue on behalf of an heir – והוה ליה למימר דלמא אי הוה אביו קיים דהיינו בן גזלן הוה טעין אנא הדר זבינתה מינך – So it should be said by בי"ד on behalf of the grandson (the יורש of the son) that perhaps if his father (meaning the son of the גזלן ) was alive, the בן גזלן would have claimed, ‘I bought it from you later’ (after my father the גזלן had it), therefore the חזקה of the יורש is valid. תוספות (because of the abovementioned difficulty) presents a different גירסא: ונראה לרבינו יצחק דגרס פעמים שבן גזלן יש לו חזקה – And it appears to the ר"י that the text reads, ‘sometimes the son of a גזלן has a חזקה (not פעמים שבן בן גזלן אין לו חזקה) – כגון דקאתי בטענתא דאבא דאבוה דהוא אבי הגזלן‎ – For instance where the בן גזלן comes with the claim of his grandfather, meaning the father of the גזלן‎ – וקא משמע לן דאף על גב שהיתה ביד מי שאין לו חזקה דהיינו אביו הגזלן‎ – And רבא is teaching us that even though this property was in the possession of someone who does not have a חזקה, meaning his father the גזלן (from whom he actually inherited it) – מכל מקום יש לו חזקה כיון שאמר שהיתה של אבי אביו – Nevertheless the בן גזלן has a חזקה since he said it belonged to his grandfather – תוספות reconsiders the first גירסא: ויש ליישב גירסא ראשונה פעמים דבן בן גזלן אין לו חזקה והכי פירושה‎ – And we can substantiate the first גירסא, which is פעמים דבן בן גזלן אין לו חזקה, and this is the explanation; the בן בן גזלן has no חזקה in a case where – כגון דאתא בטענתא דאבא דאבוה‎ – For instance that the grandson comes with a claim of his grandfather the גזלן‎ – ואומר שאמר לו אביו דהיינו בן הגזלן שהניחה לו הגזלן אביו – And the grandson claims that his father, meaning the son of the גזלן, said to him (the grandson of the גזלן) that his father the גזלן left him this property – דאם איתא דהדר זבנתה מינך הוה אמר ליה אנא זבינא‎ – For if it is true that the בן הגזלן went back and bought it from the מערער, he would have said to his son (the grandson), ‘I bought it from the מערער', instead of merely saying, ‘my father left it from me’, this proves that the בן הגזלן never bought it from the מערער‎ – תוספות offers an alternate reason why here we are not טוען ליורש that his father bought it: אי נמי נראה לרבינו יצחק דלא טענינן ליורש כי האי גוונא דמילתא דלא שכיחא היא‎ – Additionally it appears to the ר"י that we are not טוען ליורש in such a case, for it is something uncommon that the בן גזלן who inherited the field from his father should buy it back from the מערער‎ – תוספות proves that we do not claim a מילתא דלא שכיחא (even) for יתומים: כי היכי דאמר בסוף המוכר את הבית (לקמן דף ע, ב ושם דיבור המתחיל מאן) – Just as the גמרא states in the end of פרק המוכר את הבית‎ – דלא טענינן ליתמי נאנסו משום דמילתא דלא שכיחא היא‎ – That we do not claim נאנסו on behalf of the יתומים since אונס is an uncommon occurrence – תוספות responds to an anticipated difficulty: והא דקאמר לעיל [בן] בן גזלן בן אומן יש לו חזקה – And this which ר' יוחנן ruled previously that the grandson of a גזלן and the son of an אומן (both) have a חזקה‎ – תוספות responds: היינו דוקא משום דאמר בפנינו הודה – That ruling is only because he claimed that the מערער admitted in our presence that he sold it (to my grandfather [the גזלן]) – ואדרבה משם יש להוכיח דמשמע הא לאו הכי אין לו חזקה‎ – And on the contrary; from there we can prove what תוספות claimed, for it seems that were it not for this (that he claimed בפנינו הודה לו) he has no חזקה‎ – כיון דמעיקרא בתורת אומנות ואריסות וגזלנות אתא לידיה: Since initially it came into his possession through either אומנות, אריסות וגזלנות‎. S UMMARY We can be גורס that בן של גזלן יש לו חזקה, or we can be גורס that בן בנו של גזלן אין לו חזקה, and we are not טוען ליורש, either because he negated that option in his claim, or the claim of הדר זבנה is a מלתא דלא שכיחא which we are not טוען ליתומים (unless he claims בפנינו הודה). T HINKING IT OVER 1. It appears from תוספות that by a בן בנו של גזלן, he has a חזקה in a case of בפנינו הודה even if he claims that he inherited it from his grandfather (the גזלן). The question here is why the בן גזלן is not believed (even in a case of בפנינו הודה), because we say the הודאה is meaningless, and the בן בנו של גזלן is believed; here too we should say that the הודאה is meaningless. Why is there this difference between בן גזלן (where אין לו חזקה) and בן בנו של גזלן (where יש לו חזקה)?! 2. תוספות writes בן בן גזלן ובן אומן יש לו חזקה, and similarly in the end תוספות writes כיון דמעיקרא בתורת אומנות ואריסות וגזלנות אתא לידיה‎. Is תוספות question (and subsequent answer) based only on בן בן גזלן or also on אומן ואריס‎?

    ירד מאומנותו יש לו חזקה‎—He left his craft; he has a Chazokoh O VERVIEW The ברייתא rules that once a craftsman (אומן) leaves his trade and is no longer an אומן, he has a חזקה, meaning that he can claim that he bought any item which is in his possession (as opposed to an אומן who has no חזקה). The issue here is whether we mean that he has a חזקה even on the items which were in his possession while he was an אומן, or that he only has a חזקה on these items which came into his possession after he left the אומנות‎. -------------------------------- מצינו לפרש מאותן כלים שנתן לו לאחר שירד מאומנותו דומיא דאריס שירד מאריסותו – We can explain the ruling of ירד מאומנתו יש לו חזקה to be referring to those utensils that were given to him after he left his אומנות, similar to a sharecropper (אריס) who left his אריסות‎ – אי נמי אפילו אותן כלים שנתנו לו בשעה שהיה עדיין אומן‎ – Or we can also say that the אומן has a חזקה even regarding those items which were given to him while he was still an אומן‎ – והוא ששהו אחר אומנותו כל כך שהוא רגילות שמחזירם לבעלים – Provided that they lingered by the אומן after he left his trade to the extent that normally they would be returned to their owners – תוספות draws a parallel ruling: ונראה דבן אומן נמי דאמר לעיל דיש לו חזקה כי אמר בפנינו הודה‎ – And it appears to תוספות that also regarding the son of the אומן, where the גמרא previously ruled that the בן אומן has a חזקה when he claims that the מערער admitted in my presence to my father that he sold it to my father; the ruling is – היינו אחר ששהה אחר מות אביו‎ – Only if the item lingered after his father’s death for the above-mentioned period – דאי לאו הכי אין נראה שיהא נאמן במיגו דאי בעי אמר לקוח הוא בידי – For otherwise (if the dispute took place immediately after the father’s death) it does not appear that the בן אומן would be believed (that בפני הודה) with a מיגו that the בן אומן could have claimed, ‘I bought it ’ – דאי טעין נמי לקחתיה ממך לא היה נאמן: For even if he would have claimed, ‘I bought it from you; he would not be believed. S UMMARY An אומן שירד מאומנתו (as well as a בן אומן who claims בפני הודה) has a חזקה, even if the item was in his possession when he was an אומן, provided that an inordinate amount of time elapsed from when the owner should have retrieved his item. T HINKING IT OVER 1. These cases of אומן שירד מאומנתו and בן אומן, which תוספות is discussing, are they in situation of עדים (that he gave it to repair בפני עדים) and ראה (that we see it in his possession) or not (both not or one not)? 2. What would be the ruling by an אומן who claims לקחתיה מינך, in a case where the item lingered by the אומן for an extended period of time? Why?

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    Rashba

    הכי גרסינן - לא צריכא דאמרי' בפנינו הודה לו. שאם כן אפילו אריס ואומן נמי מעמידין בידם אם הביאו ראיה.

    הא ד אמר רבי יוחנן גזלן על שדה זו - יש מפרשים שיש עדים שגזלה ממנו, וכיון שכן, אין לו חזקה באותה שדה, לפי שזה ירא מלמחות פן יגלגל עליו נזקין, ודוקא על אותה שדה אין לו חזקה, הא בשאר שדות יש לו חזקה, דאינן יראין למחות בו, ואפילו נגזל זה בעצמו, והיינו דקאמר שהוחזק גזלן על שדה זו ולא קאמר כגון שהוחזק גזלן על שדה אחת. ואם תאמר כיון שאינו כל כך (אלא) [אלם], שאין אדם ירא למחות בו, עד שיש לו חזקה בשאר שדות, מאי שנא שדה זו, אפילו בזו היה לו למחות. י"ל כיון שהוחזק גזלן על שדה זו וחמדה, גם הוא ימסור נפשו עליה וימטי לנגזל ולחמריה לשחוור. ויש מפרשים כגון שגזלה ויצאה מתחת ידו בבית דין ועכשיו ראינוה תחת ידו שוב אין לו בה חזקה, שהרי הוחזק גזלן עליה וחומדה וגזלה, ולשון הוחזק גזלן הולם יותר הפירוש הזה.

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    Bava Batra 47a

    Bava Batra 47a. The full printed text of this folio side - 8 numbered segments, about 205 words - with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

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    Edition: Wikisource Talmud Bavli · Wording checked against the source on 07/09/2026