Talmud Builders

    Bava Kamma 4b

    Chapter 1 - Arba'ah Avot

    גם: בבא קמא דף ד׳ ע״ב, פרק א׳ ארבעה אבות

    English translation - Bava Kamma 4b

    Translation: William Davidson Edition - English. Read alongside the Aramaic below; numbers match the passages of the daf.

    1here too, teach the mishna: And with regard to man, responsibility for safeguarding his body is incumbent upon him.

    2§ Rav Mari objects to the Gemara’s initial suggestion that the dispute between Rav and Shmuel with regard to the meaning of Maveh is based on biblical terms with similar etymology. He suggests: But why not say that Maveh , this is the primary category of damage caused by water, as it is written: “As when fire ignites brushwood; fire boils [ tiveh ] water” (Isaiah 64:1). The terms tiveh and maveh share a common root, and the reference is to water. The Gemara rejects this: Is it written in the verse: Water boils [ nivu ] from fire, with water, a plural noun in Hebrew, the subject of the intransitive plural verb, nivu ? No, “fire boils [ tiveh ] water” is written, and since tiveh is a transitive singular verb, the subject is fire, which is a singular noun. Therefore, no proof can be adduced from this verse that Maveh refers to an action performed with water.

    3Rav Zevid objects to the Gemara’s initial suggestion that the dispute between Rav and Shmuel with regard to the meaning of Maveh is based on biblical terms with similar etymology. He suggests: But why not say that Maveh , this is the primary category of Fire, as when the term “ tiveh ” is written in the verse cited by Rav Mari, it is written with regard to Fire. The Gemara rejects this: If so, what is the meaning when the mishna enumerates the primary categories of damage: The category of Maveh and the category of Fire, indicating that they are two distinct categories? And if you would say that these are not two distinct categories but rather the mishna is explaining the meaning of Maveh , if so, why does the mishna say: There are four primary categories of damage? There are only three.

    4And if you would say that Maveh is Fire, and there are four categories in the mishna, as the mishna teaches the primary category of Ox, in which there are two primary categories of damage, Eating and Trampling, the mishna remains difficult. If it is so that Maveh in the mishna is referring to Fire, what is the meaning of that which the mishna states with regard to the common denominator of Maveh and Ox: And the defining characteristics of this category of Ox and that category of Maveh , in which there is a living spirit, are not similar to the defining characteristic of the next category in the mishna, in which there is no living spirit. Accordingly, how can Maveh mean Fire; what living spirit is there in Fire? And furthermore, if Maveh is Fire, what is the meaning of the next phrase in the mishna: They are not similar to the defining characteristic of the category of Fire, in which there is no living spirit. Clearly, Maveh is not Fire.

    5§ Contrary to the mishna, where four primary categories of damage were enumerated, Rabbi Oshaya taught ( Tosefta 9:1) that there are thirteen primary categories of damage. The thirteen categories consist of four bailees, five types of indemnity, and the four primary categories listed in the mishna. The four bailees are: The unpaid bailee, who is liable for damage caused by his negligence; and the borrower, who is liable for all damage; the paid bailee, and the renter, who is liable if the object is lost or stolen. The five types of indemnity one is liable to pay for injuring another person are: Damage, i.e., the decrease in the injured party’s value; pain; and medical costs; loss of livelihood; and humiliation that the injured party suffered from the assault. And with the four primary categories enumerated in the mishna, that is a total of thirteen.

    6The Gemara asks: And what is the reason the tanna of our mishna does not teach these nine categories and enumerates only four? Granted, according to the opinion of Shmuel, who says that Maveh is Eating, it is with regard to the categories of damage caused by one’s property that the tanna of the mishna speaks. With regard to categories of damage caused by one’s body, the tanna of the mishna does not speak, and the additional categories of Rabbi Oshaya are damage caused by one’s body. But according to the opinion of Rav, who says that Maveh is Man, let the tanna of the mishna teach these nine categories as well. The Gemara answers: According to Rav, the mishna teaches the primary category of Man, and included in that category are all matters of damage that are caused by man, among them the categories added by Rabbi Oshaya.

    7The Gemara asks: And according to Rabbi Oshaya too, doesn’t the mishna teach the primary category of Man? Why then did he enumerate the four bailees and the five types of indemnity? The Gemara answers: In his enumeration, Rabbi Oshaya distinguishes between two types of damage caused by a man: He teaches cases involving a man who injures another person, and he teaches the primary category of Maveh , which involves the cases of a man who damages an ox or damages other property belonging to another person.

    8The Gemara asks: If so, with regard to Ox as well, let him teach two categories of Ox. Let him teach the case of an ox that damages an ox or other property belonging to another person, and let him teach the case of an ox that injures a person.

    9The Gemara rejects this suggestion: What is this comparison? Granted, in the case of a man who damages another’s ox or other property, he pays merely for the damage; in the case of a man who injures another person, he pays an additional four types of indemnity payments: Pain, medical costs, loss of livelihood, and humiliation. But with regard to damage caused by an ox, what difference is there to me if it is an ox that damages an ox or other property belonging to another person and what difference is there to me if it is an ox that injures a person? In both this case and that case the owner of the ox pays merely for the damage. Therefore, unlike a case where a person causes the damage, there is no reason to distinguish between cases where an ox causes damage based on the victim of that damage.

    10With regard to the assertion that Rabbi Oshaya added only cases involving a man who injures another person, the Gemara asks: But aren’t there the categories of the unpaid bailee and the borrower, the paid bailee and the renter, which are categories that describe a man who damages another’s ox or other property, as the cases referred to by Rabbi Oshaya are those where the bailee fails to return the deposit that he was entrusted to safeguard? And yet Rabbi Oshaya teaches each type of bailee as distinct categories and does not include them under the rubric of Man, one of the four categories enumerated in the mishna.

    11The Gemara answers that the reason why Rabbi Oshaya enumerates Man separately from the bailees is that he teaches one category, Man, referring to damage that is engendered by direct action, e.g., the five types of indemnity payments, and he teaches the four bailees, referring to damage that occurs on its own, e.g., failure of the four bailees to safeguard the deposit.

    12The Gemara cites a third listing of primary categories of damage. Rabbi Ḥiyya teaches that there are twenty-four primary categories of damage: Payment of double the principal, paid by a thief who is apprehended and convicted based on the testimony of witnesses and who does not admit his crime; and payment of four or five times the principal, paid by a thief who steals an ox or sheep, respectively, and then slaughters or sells it; and payment of the principal, by a thief who admits his crime; and a robber, who steals openly and by force or threat of violence; and conspiring witnesses who pay the individual against whom they falsely testified with regard to a sum that they conspired to cause him to lose.

    13And the rapist, and the seducer, who seduces an unmarried young woman, who pay a fine of fifty sela ; and the defamer, i.e., one who defames his wife by claiming falsely in court that he discovered that she was not a virgin when he consummated the marriage and alleges that she engaged in intercourse with another man while betrothed, who pays a fine of one hundred sela ; and one who causes another’s teruma to become ritually impure, rendering it prohibited to partake of that teruma ; and one who mixes teruma with another’s non-sacred food, rendering it prohibited for any non-priest to partake of it; and one who pours another’s wine as a libation for idolatry. When one combines the eleven categories enumerated by Rabbi Ḥiyya and these thirteen categories enumerated by Rabbi Oshaya, this totals twenty-four principal categories of damage.

    14The Gemara asks: And as for Rabbi Oshaya, what is the reason that he did not teach these eleven additional categories? The Gemara answers: It is with regard to cases where one is liable to pay monetary restitution that Rabbi Oshaya speaks. With regard to cases where one is liable to pay a fine, Rabbi Oshaya does not speak.

    15The Gemara asks: What of the cases of a thief and a robber, which are cases where one is liable to pay monetary restitution? Let Rabbi Oshaya also teach those cases and include them in his list. The Gemara answers: Doesn’t he teach those cases, as he enumerates in his list the unpaid bailee and the borrower? An unpaid bailee who takes a false oath that the deposit was stolen, when in fact it remained in his possession, is liable to pay restitution like a thief.

    16The Gemara asks: And as for Rabbi Ḥiyya too, doesn’t he teach those cases; as he enumerates in his list the unpaid bailee and the borrower? Why does Rabbi Ḥiyya list them separately? The Gemara answers: Rabbi Ḥiyya makes a distinction between different types of theft: He teaches cases of theft with regard to property that came into one’s possession in a permitted manner, e.g., an unpaid bailee who was entrusted with a deposit and later misappropriated it, and he teaches cases of theft with regard to property that came into one’s possession in a prohibited manner, e.g., the actions of a thief and a robber.

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    Rashi

    ה"נ תני אדם שמירת גופו עליו - והאי דקתני ושמירתן עליך אשארא:

    אימא מבעה זה המים - שאם שופך אדם מימיו לרה"ר ובא אחר ונטנפו כליו חייב השופכן:

    כקדוח אש המסים - כמו שהאש שורף דבר הנימס כגון זפת ושעוה וכל מיני רבב:

    מים תבעה אש - וכמים שמבעבעים את האש כשנותנין מים על האש נעשים כמין אבעבועות הרתיחות וסיפא דקרא הכי הוא להודיע שמך לצריך כן תודיע שמך לצריך כשתאבדם מן העולם:

    מי כתיב מים נבעו - לשון רבים דליהוי משמע דמבעה אמים קאי שהן מבעבעין את האש:

    תבעה אש כתיב - דמשמע שהאש מבעבע המים דתבעה לשון יחיד ולשון נקבה:

    פרושי קא מפרש - המבעה זה ההבער:

    דאית ביה תרתי - שן ורגל וקרן לא קחשיב דבתמין לא קמיירי:

    מאי לא זה וזה - דקתני מתני' אשור ומבעה לא זה וזה שיש בהן רוח חיים ואי מבעה היינו אש מי אית בו רוח חיים:

    אבות - קרי להנך דכתיבן בקרא:

    שומר חנם - חייב בפשיעה והשואל חייב אפילו באונסין ושוכר ונושא שכר חייבים בגניבה ואבידה וכ"ש בפשיעה וכולהו כתיבי כדתני בפרק השואל בבבא מציעא (דף צד:) פרשה ראשונה נאמרה בשומר חנם שניה בשומר שכר שלישית בשואל הלכך אבות נינהו ולקמן בעי מאי נינהו תולדות:

    נזק - החובל בחבירו נותן לו מה שהוא שוה עכשיו פחות מבתחילה:

    צער - אומדין כמה אדם העומד ידו ליקצץ ע"י חרב רוצה ליתן כדי שיתקצץ לו ע"י סם דלית ליה צער כולי האי:

    וריפוי ושבת ובושת - כולהו יליף מקראי בפרק החובל (לקמן בבא קמא דף פה.) וכיון דכתיבי אבות נינהו כל הנך דר' אושעיא הוא עצמו מזיק דהנך ד' שומרים הן עצמם הזיקו הואיל ולא שמרו כראוי ובנזקין דאזיק גופו לא קמיירי מתני':

    אלא לרב - דאמר מבעה זה אדם הואיל ומיירי תנא דמתני' ליתני הני:

    תנא אדם - מבעה דמתני':

    תנא אדם דאזיק שור - כלומר נזקי ממון דהא מבעה דומיא דבור קתני ובור לא מיירי בנזקי אדם דרחמנא פטריה לגמרי כדתניא לקמן (בבא קמא דף נג:) שור ולא אדם חמור ולא כלים ואדם דאזיק שור היכא כתיב דקרי ליה אב דכתיב ומכה נפש בהמה ישלמנה:

    בשלמא אדם דאזיק שור כו' - וכיון דלא דמי חיובינהו להדדי תני להו בתרתי:

    אדם דאזיק אדם - כגון ה' דברים דחובל בחבירו ולקמיה פריך הא ד' שומרין דר' אושעיא אדם דאזיק שור הוא:

    וקתני - רבי אושעיא:

    אבות דמתני' הזיק דבידים ד' שומרין הזיק דממילא:

    תשלומי כפל - אם המצא תמצא בידו הגנבה (שמות כב, ג):

    תשלומי ארבעה וחמשה - בטובח ומוכר:

    וגנב - שמשלם ע"פ עצמו ואינו משלם כפל אלא קרן בלבד וכגון שהודה מעצמו דמודה בקנס פטור כדאמרינן אשר ירשיעון אלהים ישלם שנים והיינו קנס ואמרינן בפ' מרובה (לקמן בבא קמא דף סד:) פרט למרשיע את עצמו:

    וגזלן - נמי אב הוא דכתיב והשיב את הגזלה אשר גזל (ויקרא ה׳:כ״ג):

    אונס ומפתה - כתיבי חמשים כסף כתיב באונס (דברים כ״ב:כ״ט) ובמפתה כתיב (שמות כ״ב:ט״ז) כסף ישקל כמוהר הבתולות כמוהר בתולים של אונס דהיינו חמשים כסף:

    מוציא שם רע - כתיב וענשו אותו מאה כסף (דברים כ״ב:י״ט):

    מטמא - תרומה:

    מדמע - תרומה בחולין:

    ומנסך - יין לע"ז ובמס' גיטין (דף נב:) מפרש אמאי לא קם ליה בדרבה מיניה. מטמא מדמע ומנסך לא כתיבי בהדיא ואפ"ה הוו אבות שבכלל נזק הן ונזק ממון כתיב בתורה (ויקרא כ״ד:י״ח) מכה נפש בהמה ישלמנה ומנסך את היין ליכא למימר שניסכו ביין נסך שזרק בו דלא קמחסריה ולא מידי דהא מזבין ליה בר מדמי יין נסך שבו:

    ומטמא - שמגיע שרץ בתרומת כהן דאפסדה מיניה:

    גנב - המודה מעצמו וגזלן דלא משלמי אלא קרן ליתני:

    תנא ליה שומר חנם והשואל - דהתם נמי שייך גניבה כגון שטען שנגנב הימנו והרי היא בידו ואמרינן בפרק מרובה (לקמן בבא קמא דף סג:) דטוען טענת גנב כגנב וטוען טענת גזלן כגזלן והא דנקט הכא והשואל לאו דוקא דהא לא משכחת ביה דנפטר לא בטוען טענת גנב ולא בטוען טענת גזלן שהרי הוא חייב בכולו:

    דאתא לידיה בהיתירא - שומר חנם אע"ג דהשתא טוען טענת גנב שנגנב הימנו מיהו מעיקרא כי אתא לידיה בהיתירא אתא לידיה וגנב וגזלן ממונא אתא לידיה באיסורא:

    בבא קמא ד עמוד ב

    1הכא נמי, תני: אדם שמירת גופו עליו.

    2מתקיף לה רב מרי, ואימא ״מבעה״ זה המים, כדכתיב: ״(ישעיהו סד״, א) כקדוח אש המסים, מים תבעה אש״! מי כתיב ״מים נבעו״?! ״תבעה אש כתיב.

    3מתקיף לה רב זביד: ואימא ״מבעה״ זה האש, דכי כתיב ״תבעה״ באש הוא דכתיב״! אי הכי, מאי ״המבעה וההבער״? וכי תימא פרושי קמפרש; אי הכי, ארבעה?! שלשה״ הוו!

    4וכי תימא, תנא שור דאית ביה תרתי; אי הכי, ״לא זה וזה שיש בהן רוח חיים״ אש מאי רוח חיים אית ביה? ותו, מאי ״כהרי האש״?

    5תני רב אושעיא, שלשה עשר אבות נזיקין: שומר חנם, והשואל, נושא שכר, והשוכר; נזק, צער, וריפוי, שבת, ובושת; וארבעה דמתני' הא תליסר.

    6ותנא דידן מ"ט לא תני הני? בשלמא לשמואל בנזקי ממון קמיירי, בנזקי גופו לא קמיירי; אלא לרב, ליתני! תנא אדם וכל מילי דאדם.

    7ולר' אושעיא נמי, הא תני ליה אדם! תרי גווני אדם; תנא אדם דאזיק אדם, ותנא אדם דאזיק שור.

    8אי הכי, שור נמי, ליתני תרי גווני שור ליתני שור דאזיק שור, וליתני שור דאזיק אדם!

    9האי מאי? בשלמא אדם דאזיק שור נזק הוא דמשלם, אדם דאזיק אדם משלם ארבעה דברים; אלא שור, מה לי שור דאזיק שור, מה לי שור דאזיק אדם; אידי ואידי נזק הוא דמשלם.

    10והא שומר חנם והשואל נושא שכר והשוכר, דאדם דאזיק שור הוא, וקתני!

    11תני הזיקא דבידים, וקתני הזיקא דממילא.

    12תני ר' חייא, עשרים וארבעה אבות נזיקין: תשלומי כפל, ותשלומי ארבעה וחמשה, וגנב, וגזלן, ועדים זוממין,׃

    13והאונס, והמפתה, ומוציא שם רע, והמטמא, והמדמע, והמנסך; והני תליסר הא עשרים וארבעה.

    14ורבי אושעיא מאי טעמא לא תני הני? בממונא קמיירי, בקנסא לא קמיירי.

    15גנב וגזלן, דממונא הוא, ליתני! הא קתני ליה שומר חנם והשואל.

    16ורבי חייא נמי, הא תנא ליה שומר חנם והשואל! תני ממונא דאתא לידיה בהיתירא, וקתני ממונא דאתא לידיה באיסורא.

    Tosafot

    But [why not] say [that] Maveh, this is [the primary category of damage caused by] water? Tosafot wants to show that this question was not asked arbitrarily, rather, there is a legitimate basis for this question. The explanation of why this question is asked is as follows: Since the verses quoted to substantiate the meaning of the word מבעה are not precise, neither according to Rav nor Shmuel, it is reasonable to ask if perhaps there is a totally different meaning. Granted that there is reason to believe that מבעה may have some other meaning, it would still not be justified to ask if perhaps it means water, unless there is a source in the Torah that water is in fact one of the damagers. And if you ask: and where is water written in the Torah as a damager? And we can answer: the source is from ושלח, and where do we see that ושלח relates to water? And so it says in Iyov 5, 10, as he describes the wondrous deeds of G-d, “ and he sends waters over the open country”. The phrase “he sends” is used together with water. So too, when the Torah uses the word ושלח, it refers to one who damages by “sending” water. And even though the phrase “ושלח-he sent” in the Torah is speaking of an animal, because the word בעירה used in the verse means an animal, even so, we can also learn that water is a damager, since the Torah expresses the concept of an animal damaging with the phrase “he sent”. In order to express the idea of an animal damaging by regel, the Torah did not have to use the term “he sent”. There are more efficient ways of expressing that thought. Since the Torah did use the term “he sent” which can be interpreted as referring to water based on the verse in Iyov, we say that the Torah especially used this expression to teach us that water is also a damager. The Gemara earlier on 4a, asked: if we had no verse to prove that ושלח refers to regel, what else could it mean? It seems that there is nothing else that it could have meant, but at this point in the Gemara we are entertaining the idea that ושלח may refer to water. Why was the Gemara on 4a not thinking of the possibility that ושלח means water? And earlier when the Gemara asked: what could it, ושלח, mean? The Gemara could not have said that it means water, because even if one says ושלח means water, we must still say that it means something that relates to an animal since the word בעירה, his animal, is written in the verse. Now that Tosafot has determined a would-be source for water as one of the primary damagers, he turns to the practicality of what this damager would be as compared to the other primary damagers. And if you ask: And these waters that are to be included as a damager, what are the circumstances that cause liability? If he turned the flow of the water of a river or a stream upon it, the object that was destroyed, and the water fell upon it immediately, that is his, the person’s, power and he is liable as a person who damages. And if it was a secondary power, the water did not immediately fall on the object as it came out of the stream but it started to flow in a new direction and at some distance from the stream it damaged the object, that is merely indirectly causing a damage and one is not liable for that as the Gemara says in HaNisfrafin (Sanhedrin 77b). And we can answer: that it is speaking when the water is a secondary power, and the Torah is letting us know that for a secondary power one is also liable. The Gemara in Sanhedrin quoted earlier which says that a secondary power is merely indirectly causing a death, is speaking after the fact that water is not one of the damagers. If water had been one of the damagers, the Gemara there would not have concluded that one is not liable for causing a death through a secondary power. Tosafot offers a second option of how the damager water would be liable if the conclusion of the Gemara was that water was indeed a primary damager. Alternatively, the Torah is telling us that water is a damager after it comes to rest in a public domain. But it is not the same as bor and could not be derived from bor, as we find (later 30a) that when one opens waste pipes to the public domain that eventually damage others he is liable for the damage that was caused even after they came to rest. This cannot be derived from bor, since opening waste pipes is permissible during the winter. So too, the water under discussion could not be derived from bor, because it is permissible to bring water into the public domain. But the Gemara does derive that one is liable for opening waste pipes from the common characteristic method. Why can't we derive water from that same common characteristic method? And even though, it, water that rests in a public domain, could be derived from the common characteristic method, as the Gemara on 6a says that opening the waste pipes is derived from shor and bor. So too, water that has come to rest in a public domain could be derived from that very same common characteristic method. Even so, it is necessary to write a new av of water so that one will be liable for the destruction of vessels, for this could not be derived from any derivation using bor as a source, since bor is exempt for damaging vessels. Tosafot has now explained why the Gemara asked: and perhaps מבעה refers to water? We have also learned how מבעה could be derived from verses in the Torah and we have seen the circumstances under which one would be liable for this new av. However, ultimately the new av could not be what was meant by the Mishna. And the Gemara could have refuted the contention that מבעה means water by asking: what is meant by the Mishna’s phrase, when referring to shor and maveh, neither shor nor maveh that have a spirit of life is like fire which does not have a life spirit? If maveh is water, that too does not have a spirit of life. However, the Gemara did not raise this question because even without it, the Gemara answers the original question; perhaps maveh means water, correctly.

    Is it written - water boils? See Artscroll note 5. The Gemara is rejecting the contention that maveh is water because the verb in the verse is not referring to what happens to the water rather the verb is referring to the activity of the fire. If the verb נבעו was used it would refer to the water and we could then say that maveh of the Mishna refers to water. And if you ask: Even if the verse had written נבעו, which refers to the water, it still could not be said that our Mishna is discussing water. Does our Mishna use the word נבעה, which would show that the word was derived from that verse in Yeshayahu 64? Which is the very question that the Gemara asked earlier (3b) about the opinion that maveh is shain. Does the Mishna use the word נבעה? Since our Mishna uses the word maveh it obviously is not referring to the verse in Yeshayahu 64. Earlier the Gemara said that maveh may mean shain because we find that the word נבעו means to uncover something that had been covered. While shain is eating, the tooth that had been covered is uncovered and therefore the term מבעה may refer to shain. And one can answer: that it is not logical to ask “does the Mishna say נבעה?” only when analyzing shain. The context of the question is let the Mishna use the word נבעה which implies that the tooth itself is uncovered in the process of eating, whereas the word מבעה means that it uncovers [something else, which had previously been covered] which is not true of shain. It does not uncover something else in the process of eating. However, as far as water is concerned, it is quite logical to use the term מבעה, because piping hot water is called מבעבעים. The term מבעה can be referring to what happens to the water as opposed to shain, where the term מבעה cannot be referring to what happens to the shain.

    [There are] thirteen primary categories of damage - Although there are thirteen primary damagers, there are only twelve sets of laws governing them, because a lessee has the same laws as a paid guard according to some or an unpaid guard according to others.

    [The] unpaid guard and the borrower - The order in the Torah for the guards is: 1) שומר חנם – unpaid guard 2) שומר שכר – paid guard 3) שואל – borrower 4) שוכר – lessee The Braita when presenting the guards does not follow the order of the Torah. What logical order is it following? An unpaid guard is not liable for any occurrences such as theft, loss and unavoidable accidents, except for negligence. By contrast, a borrower is liable for all occurrences even accidents, with the exception of the animal dying because of labor it was doing. These are the extremes; the paid guard is somewhere in the middle. And a paid guard is liable for some occurrences such as theft or loss and is not liable for accidents. This is why the Braita mentioned them in this order and not in the order in which they are written in the parsho.

    Two types of a man who damages - In response to the question, why does the Braita mention a person who damages and the list another series of ways that a person damages, the Gemara answered we are speaking about two distinct cases of a person who damages. The first section of the Braita is referring to a person who damaged an animal, whereas the second section of the Braita is referring to a person who damaged another person. This answer begs another question. And if you ask: since the Braita is being more specific than the Mishna and taught two distinct cases of a person who damages; he should also teach us about three avos of shor: the keren, the shain and the regel? And we can answer: that the Braita is content to incorporate all the avos of shor in shor as did the tanna of the Mishna.

    And conspiring witnesses - Zom’mim witnesses are disqualified by a second pair of witnesses who testify that the first pair could not possibly testify about the subject because they were elsewhere with us, the second pair, at the time the proceeding were supposed to have taken place. The rule of Zom’mim witnesses is that they are penalized with the punishment that they wanted to inflict upon their victim. If they were testifying about a capital offense, they are put to death. If it was a financial matter, they must pay their intended victim the amount that they said he was obligated to pay. In capital cases there is a very interesting rule for the zom’mim witnesses. They are liable as long as their intended victim has not yet been put to death. If however, he has already been executed, they are not liable for the death punishment. This is derived from the verse that describes their punishment as כאשר זמם as they planned to do, ולא כאשר עשה but not as they actually did. Tosafot discusses the application of this rule to a financial offense. Why does Tosafot choose this venue to discuss this matter? Two reasons are offered by the Acharonim: A) The Braita is listing zom’mim witnesses as a damager. If he is liable only when the verdict is not carried out, how can he be listed as a damager? When he actually damaged by having the victim pay, he is not required to pay. When he is required to pay, the victim did not suffer any damages. Since the Braita list him as a damager, it must be that he is required to pay even if the verdict was already carried out. B) The Gemara later calls the payment of zom’mim witnesses’ ממונא a financial payment as opposed to a קנס a fine. If the rule was that he only pays when the verdict was not carried out, how could one possibly say that this is a financial payment and not a fine? Tosafot needs to show us how we know that they pay even after the verdict has been carried out. Riva explained: that even if the victim already paid based on the testimony of the zom’mim witnesses, they are liable to pay the victim. The rule “as they planned but not as they did” does not exempt them in financial matters because the unjust payment can be returned to the victim. Capital punishment is final. It cannot be undone. When somebody pays money on the basis of false testimony, the money can always be returned to its rightful owner. In this context one never really can be exempted because of ולא כאשר עשה, for in financial matters כאשר עשה is never really final. Tosafot offers another explanation for the ruling that zom’mim witnesses must pay in financial matters even if the verdict has already been carried out. And R’I explains that the reason offered by Riva is unnecessary, because as far as financial matters are concerned we can hold them liable for their false testimony by a kal v’chomer. If one is liable for planning to wrongly cause his victim to pay, he should certainly be liable if he did already pay. For in regard to money matters we can punish based on a kal v’chomer. And that which the Gemara says in that when they already killed the victim, they, the witnesses, are not killed, that is because we cannot inflict capital punishment based on a kal v’chomer. R’I understands that כאשר זמם is not an exemption for one who already did. If it were an exemption it would apply equally to money matters as to capital offenses. Rather, it is a statement that the Torah specifically punished the witnesses when the verdict was not executed. Any other conviction must be based on a new derivation. Kal v’chomer can be used to establish a punishment in money matters, but not in capital cases.

    One who pours [another's wine] as a libation [for idolatry] - There are those who disagree about the meaning of in this Braita in One holds that we are discussing one who actually pours wine before an idol as a form of idol worship thus rendering the wine prohibited and the other holds that we are discussing one who mixed wine that was prohibited because it had been used in the service of idols together with kosher wine thus rendering the kosher wine useless.

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    Rabbeinu Chananel

    ואתקיף רב מרי ואימא מבעה זה מים כדכתיב מים תבעה אש - ודחי ליה מי כתיב מים נבעו תבעה אש [כתיב] כלומר תבעה מלאכת אש היא. ואקשי אי הכי אימא מבעה זה האש ונדחת ולא עמדה.

    תני רב הושעיא י"ג אבות נזיקין שומר חנם ושואל כו' בשלמא לשמואל דאמר מבעה זה השן אמר לך מתני' בנזקי ממונו מיירי בנזקי גופו לא מיירי אלא לרב דמפרש מבעה זה אדם הוה ליה למתני הני י"ג במתני'. ומפריק רב תנא מבעה שהוא אדם וכלל בו כל נזקי אדם ורב הושעיא תנא במתני' אדם דאזיק שור בידים דהוא משלם נזק והדר תנא אדם דאזיק אדם דמשלם ד' דברים והזיקה (דשור) [אדם דאזיק שור] דממילא.

    תני ר' חייא כ"ד אבות נזיקין תשלומי כפל ותשלומי ד' וה' וגנב וגזלן וכו' פי' המדמע מערב תרומה וכיוצא בה בחולין.

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    Bava Kamma 4b

    Bava Kamma 4b. The full printed text of this folio side - 16 numbered segments, about 286 words - with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

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    Edition: Wikisource Talmud Bavli · Wording checked against the source on 07/09/2026