Talmud Builders

    Yoma 82a

    Back to index

    English translation — Yoma 82a

    Translation: William Davidson Edition - English. Read alongside the Aramaic below; numbers match the passages of the daf.

    1MISHNA: With regard to the children, one does not afflict them by withholding food on Yom Kippur; however, one trains them one year before or two years before they reach majority, by means of a partial fast lasting several hours, so that they will be accustomed to fulfill mitzvot.

    2GEMARA: The Gemara asks about the wording of the mishna: Since it is stated that one trains children two years before their maturity, is it necessary to say that one trains them one year before? This expression in the mishna is superfluous. Rav Ḥisda said: This is not difficult. This statement that one trains children one year before their maturity is referring to a feeble child; that statement that one trains children two years before their maturity is referring to a healthy child.

    3Rav Huna said: One trains a healthy child of eight years and nine years to fast for several hours; at ten years and eleven years, they complete the fast by rabbinic law; at twelve years they complete the fast by Torah law. This applies to girls who reach maturity and become obligated in mitzvot at age twelve. And Rav Naḥman said: At nine years and ten years one trains them to fast for several hours; at eleven and twelve years they complete the fast by rabbinic law; at thirteen years they complete the fast by Torah law. This applies to boys. And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: There is no obligation with regard to children completing the fast by rabbinic law. Rather, at ten and eleven years, one trains them to fast for several hours; and at twelve years girls are obligated to complete their fast by Torah law.

    4§ We learned in the mishna: With regard to the children, one does not afflict them by withholding food on Yom Kippur; however, one trains them for one year before or two years before they reach maturity. Granted, this makes sense according to the opinion of Rav Huna and Rav Naḥman, who hold that for one or two years before reaching maturity there is a rabbinic law requiring children to complete the fast. The mishna that states one year before or two years before should be understood as follows: A feeble child is obligated to complete the fast on Yom Kippur in the year before reaching maturity by rabbinic law, and a healthy child is obligated to complete the fast on Yom Kippur in the two years before reaching maturity by rabbinic law (Vilna Gaon).

    5But according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, who holds that there is no rabbinic law to complete the fast, this is difficult. In his opinion, what is the difference between one year before and two years before? Rabbi Yoḥanan could have said to you: What is the meaning of one year or two years? One year is referring not to the year before the year preceding their maturity, i.e. the two years preceding it, but actually to the year preceding their maturity. The phrase: One or two years, indicates that there is a difference between those who are required for one year and those who required for two, which depends on their health: The healthy child is required to fast two years, but one year is sufficient for a feeble child.

    6Come and hear that which Rabba bar Shmuel taught in a baraita : With regard to children, one does not afflict them by withholding food on Yom Kippur; however, one trains them one year for a feeble child or two years for a healthy child preceding their maturity. Granted, according to the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan, this works out well; but according to Rav Huna and Rav Naḥman, who say that there is an additional year that one is required to complete the fast according to rabbinic law, this is difficult. The Rabbis could say to you: What is this training that is also taught there? It is referring to fasting a complete day, which is required by rabbinic law. By rabbinic law, the time of completing the fast for a healthy child is two years before he reaches maturity.

    7The Gemara asks: And is training called completion? Doesn’t training mean that the child performs only part of the mitzva? Wasn’t it taught explicitly in a baraita : What is training? If the child was accustomed to eat every day at the second hour of the day, one feeds him at the third hour, so he will begin to understand the concept of affliction. If he was accustomed to eat at the third hour, one feeds him at the fourth hour. Rava bar Ulla said: This is not difficult; these are two different types of training. There is training of small children to wait slightly longer before eating, and training of older children, in which one habituates them to fasting a full day.

    8MISHNA: With regard to a pregnant woman who smelled food and was overcome by a craving to eat it, one feeds her until she recovers, as failure to do so could lead to a life-threatening situation. If a person is ill and requires food due to potential danger, one feeds him according to the advice of medical experts who determine that he indeed requires food. And if there are no experts there, one feeds him according to his own instructions, until he says that he has eaten enough and needs no more.

    9GEMARA: The Sages taught in a baraita : With regard to a pregnant woman who smelled consecrated meat or pig meat and craved those specific foods, one inserts a thin reed into the juice of that item and places it on her mouth. If her mind become settled with that, it is well. And if not, one feeds her the gravy itself of that forbidden food. If her mind becomes settled with that, it is well. And if not, one feeds her the fat of the forbidden food itself, as there is no halakha that stands in the way of saving a life except for the prohibitions against idol worship, and forbidden sexual relationships, and bloodshed.

    10The Gemara clarifies: With regard to the halakha that the prohibition against idol worship takes precedence over saving one’s life, from where do we derive this? As it was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Eliezer says: If it is stated: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul” (Deuteronomy 6:5), why is it stated in the continuation of the verse: “And with all your might” (Deuteronomy 6:5)? And if it is stated: “With all your might,” why is it stated: “With all your soul”? One of these statements appears to be superfluous.

    11Rather, it is to teach that if there is a person whose body is more beloved to him than his property, therefore it is stated: “With all your soul.” The verse teaches that one must be willing to sacrifice his life to sanctify God’s name. And if there is a person whose property is more beloved to him than his body, therefore it is stated: “With all your might.” Rabbi Eliezer understands the phrase “with all your might” to mean: With all your possessions. Therefore, one must be prepared to forfeit his life rather than be saved through idol worship.

    12§ With regard to the concept that one must surrender his life rather than have forbidden sexual relations or shed blood through murder, from where do we derive this? As it was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi says: It is stated about the rape of a betrothed woman: “For as when a man rises against his fellow and slays him, even so is this matter” (Deuteronomy 22:26). One might ask: What idea did we learn about a betrothed woman from a murderer? The halakha of a betrothed woman is clear; what new point is learned by comparing it to the halakha of a murderer?

    13Rather, this halakha about the murderer, which appears to come to teach about the betrothed woman, is found to actually be the subject of teaching. The inference is as follows: Just as with regard to the betrothed woman, permission is given to save her at the cost of the life of her attacker, so too, the murderer may be saved from committing the crime at the cost of his life, i.e., one may save the victim by killing the attacker. Another teaching is derived in the opposite direction, from the case of murder to the case of rape. Just as the murderer is subject to the halakha of let him be killed, and let him not transgress, i.e., one must even allow himself to be killed rather than take the life of another, so too, a man must surrender his life rather than engage in forbidden sexual relations with a betrothed young woman. By inference, the halakha of let him be killed, and let him not transgress, applies to all forbidden sexual relations.

    License: CC-BY-NC

    Text
    Layout
    Concept key:SheʼelahTeshuvahKushyaTerutzRaʼayahStirahMemra
    Text size
    100%
    Original size

    Rashi

    It was taught in the Mishna a pregnant woman who smellsThe fetus smells the smell of the broth and craves it, if she doesn't eat, the two of them are in danger

    According to expertsIf two doctors say that he is in danger, he should eat

    (Gemara) Reedreed (another translation), she inserts reed into the juice of the meat and she sucks it

    Why do we say "with all your might," etcLet him say the most precious among everything and how much the more so less precious

    When a man riseswritten about betrothed woman

    What do we learn from murderer about betrothed womanthe judgement in the case of the murderer is the same as the other matter (the rape)

    Just as with the pregnant woman, permission is givento the savior to save her from this rape with the life of this rapist. Kill him only until he comes upon her, as it is written: there is nobody to save her, and if there is a savior, they should save her any way possible.

    Let the murderer be killed and not transgressif they said to him kill your fellow, and if you don’t I will kill you, let him be killed and not transgress as it is explained later (in the text)

    So too a betrothed womanif they say “rape the woman who is engaged to your fellow or you will be killed," he should be killed. But she is not commanded to give up her life, because she does nothing. She is merely like the ground, the proof of the matter is Esther.

    License: CC0

    יומא 82 עמוד א

    Mishna

    1התינוקות אין מענין אותן ביוה"כ אבל מחנכין אותן לפני שנה ולפני שנתיים, בשביל שיהיו רגילין במצות.

    Gemara

    2השתא בפני שתים מחנכין להו בפני שנה מבעיא? אמר רב חסדא, לא קשיא: הא בחולה, הא בבריא.

    3א"ר הונא: בן ח' ובן ט' מחנכין אותו לשעות. בן י' ובן י"א משלימין מדרבנן, בן י"ב משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקת. ורב נחמן אמר: בן ט' בן י' מחנכין אותן לשעות, בן י"א בן י"ב משלימין מדרבנן, בן י"ג משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוק. ור' יוחנן אמר: השלמה דרבנן ליכא. בן י' בן י"א מחנכין אותו לשעות, בן י"ב משלימין מדאורייתא.

    4תנן: התינוקות אין מענין אותן ביוה"כ אבל מחנכין אותן לפני שנה ולפני שתים. בשלמא לרב הונא ורב נחמן לפני שנה ולפני שתים. לפני שנה לדבריהן, ולפני שתים לדבריהן.

    5אלא לרבי יוחנן, קשיא? אמר לך רבי יוחנן: מאי שנה או שתים סמוך לפירקן.

    6ת"ש דתני רבה בר שמואל: תינוקות אין מענין אותן ביוה"כ אבל מחנכין אותן שנה או שתים סמוך לפירקן. בשלמא לר' יוחנן ניחא, אלא לרב הונא ולרב נחמן קשיא! אמרי לך רבנן: מאי חינוך נמי דקתני השלמה.

    7ומי קרי לחינוך השלמה, והא תניא: אי זה חינוך? היה רגיל לאכול בשתי שעות מאכילין אותו לשלש. בשלש מאכילין אותו בארבע. אמר רבא בר עולא: תרי חנוכי הוו.

    Mishna

    8עוברה שהריחה מאכילין אותה עד שתשיב נפשה. חולה מאכילין אותו ע"פ בקיאין, ואם אין שם בקיאין מאכילין אותו על פי עצמו עד שיאמר די.

    Gemara

    9ת"ר עוברה שהריחה בשר קודש או בשר חזיר תוחבין לה כוש ברוטב, ומניחין לה על פיה, אם נתיישבה דעתה מוטב, ואם לאו מאכילין אותה רוטב עצמה ואם נתיישבה דעתה מוטב, ואם לאו מאכילין אותה שומן עצמו. שאין לך דבר שעומד בפני פקוח נפש, חוץ מע"ז וגילוי עריות ושפיכות דמים.

    10ע"ז מנלן דתניא, ר"א אומר: אם נאמר (דברים ו, ה) ״בכל נפשך״, למה נאמר (דברים ו, ה) ״בכל מאדך״? ואם נאמר ״בכל מאדך״, למה נאמר ״בכל נפשך״?

    11אם יש לך אדם שגופו חביב עליו מממונו לכך נאמר ״בכל נפשך״, ואם יש לך אדם שממונו חביב עליו מגופו לכך נאמר ״ובכל מאדך״.

    12גילוי עריות ושפיכת דמים מנא לן דתניא, רבי אומר: (דברים כב, כו). כי כאשר יקום איש על רעהו ורצחו נפש כן הדבר הזה וכי מה ענין למדנו מרוצח לנערה המאורסה׃

    13אלא ה"ז בא ללמד ונמצא למד מה נערה המאורסה ניתן להצילה בנפשו אף רוצח (כו') מה רוצח יהרג ואל יעבור. אף נערה המאורסה יהרג ואל יעבור׃

    Tosafot

    Just as a murderer must be killed rather than transgress, so too a betrothed maiden must be killed rather than transgress" — Rashi explained that he does not have the textual reading "she shall be killed," for she is not obligated to give up her life, since she is like the ground of the world [passive]. And with this it is understandable what is asked at the end of chapter Ben Sorer [Sanhedrin 74b]: "But wasn't Esther [forced] in public?" And why doesn't it ask: "But illicit relations require 'being killed rather than transgress' even in private?" According to the reading that does not have "she shall be killed," it works out well, for regarding illicit relations the questioner knew well that being "ground of the world" is effective, but regarding publicness, whose reason is desecration of God's name, it did not occur to him that it is effective. Therefore he asks: "But wasn't Esther in public?" And [the Gemara] answers: For publicness too she was ground of the world and it is effective. And you should know that she, who did not perform an action, need not be killed, for we derive it from murder, and murder itself that requires being killed is because "what makes you think your blood is redder" etc., and this applies where one performs an action. But if one does not perform an action, such as where they want to drop him on a baby to kill it, and if he holds back they will kill him, and in all such cases he need not be killed, for on the contrary, let us say: "What makes you think his blood is redder? Perhaps my blood is redder!" Moreover, the textual comparison regarding murder is written about one who kills with his hands: "as when a man rises against his neighbor and murders him" etc. And Rava who disagrees in chapter Ben Sorer u-Moreh [Sanhedrin 74b] with the answer of "ground of the world" and answers "his own pleasure is different" — meaning when they coerce a person to transgress in something that gives him pleasure, there is no desecration of God's name — disagrees only regarding publicness that "ground of the world" is not effective, but regarding illicit relations he admits that "ground of the world" is effective. Alternatively, even regarding publicness he does not disagree, but adds another reason. And there are those who explain that the reason it does not ask there "But wasn't Esther [guilty of] illicit relations?" is because she did not benefit from the transgression, as he cast impurity into her, as answered regarding Yael in the fourth chapter of Nazir [23b] and in chapter Mitzvat Chalitzah [Yevamot 103b]. When it asks "But doesn't she benefit from the transgression?" it explains thus: Since she benefits, she should be killed for illicit relations. And it answers: The good of the wicked is evil for the righteous. And this is not clear. First, regarding her not being obligated to give up her life, the fact that she did not benefit is not effective, for even without benefit there is still the prohibition of illicit relations, even though we say in chapter ha-Maniach [Bava Kama 32a] "And the souls that do — the doing [requires] benefit for both," nevertheless even without benefit she is liable, such as in an unnatural manner even though it is called affliction. Moreover, it is impossible that she did not benefit somewhat. And furthermore, if she intended to save herself, wherein does Scripture praise her? Didn't she act for her own sake? Moreover, it is obvious he did not wish to kill her, for he was fleeing for his life, and on the contrary, he needed her to hide him so the pursuers would not find him, and she enticed him with words until he came upon her in order to weaken his strength, as is proven from the matter. Rather, one must say it is because we say above it: "Great is a transgression for [God's] sake more than a commandment not for [God's] sake, as it is written: 'Blessed above women in the tent' — who are these? Women in the tent: Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, and Leah" — meaning the Matriarchs intended to build up from their husbands. And it asks: Why does Scripture praise her more than the women in the tent? But she benefited from the transgression! And it answers: She did not have such benefit, for her distress was greater than her pleasure, for the good of the wicked is evil for the righteous. And even though in chapter Mitzvat Chalitzah [Yevamot 103a] it also asks this way, even though there is no mention of "great is a transgression for [God's] sake" etc., one can say it relies on that passage in Nazir, just as Rashi explained that the reading is "he shall be killed," so too the She'iltot in parashat Va'era reads thus. And the She'iltot asked from what Rava said at the beginning of chapter ha-Ba al Yevimto [Yevamot 53b]: "But coercion regarding illicit relations, since there is no erection except willingly," and if so, is there such a thing as coercion regarding him, who says "even illicit relations — be killed rather than transgress"? But this is not coercion but willingness, since there is no erection except willingly. And [the She'iltot] answered: You find it for healing purposes, like that case at the end of chapter Ben Sorer u-Moreh [Sanhedrin 75a] regarding "a man who set his eyes on a certain woman and his heart brought up mud after her" etc., until "let him die and not have relations with her." And the language "be killed" does not fit the explanation, for it should have said "let him die and not transgress." And Rabbeinu [Yaakov] explained that Rava's case refers to when the gentiles press him against an illicit woman and he cannot extricate himself except if they kill him, and about this it says there is no claim of coercion to say he does not perform an action but others perform action upon him, like ground of the world. And one might think he should transgress and not be killed — it teaches us that since he knows himself that if they press him, it is impossible that he not become erect, the erection that he does is considered as if he performs an action even though it comes to him through coercion. And even though there is one who says "one who has relations with a corpse regarding illicit relations is liable," and even so, when they press him and he has relations with a corpse he is exempt since he is coerced, if so, what difference is there between having relations with a dead organ versus with an erection? One can say Rava holds to his reasoning that he said in the second chapter of Shevuot [18a]: "One who has relations with a corpse is exempt." Moreover, one can say he should have separated with minor pleasure but separated with major pleasure, as it says regarding one who has relations with a pure woman and she said to him "I became impure" in the second chapter of Shevuot [also there], and he separated with a living organ is liable even according to the one who says "one who has relations with a corpse is liable," because he should have separated with minor pleasure but separated with major pleasure. Here too, if they pressed him and he had relations as a corpse, or if he became erect for his wife permissibly and they pressed him, he is exempt. But if they pressed him and subsequently he became erect, he is liable. And now according to what we have explained, the reading is "be killed," or alternatively the reading is "even a betrothed maiden shall be killed" works out well, and we establish it as a case where she performed an action, where they coerce her to bring the illicit act upon herself. And that which is asked in Ketubot [3b] "Let them expound that coercion is permitted even though illicit relations require being killed rather than transgressing" — there too they were ground of the world. And Rabbeinu Tam would explain regarding that passage in Ketubot and regarding Esther that [a woman] is not obligated to give up her life for relations with a gentile, for his relations are not [legally considered] relations, and [a woman] is not liable to death for his relations, for the Merciful One declared the seed of an idolater ownerless, as it is written: "whose flesh is the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is the issue of horses," and it is like mere animal relations. And from this he permitted a Jewish woman who apostatized and married a gentile, and she repented, and the gentile converted — to maintain her [as his wife]. For even though it says "just as she is forbidden to the husband, so she is forbidden to the adulterer," this applies to relations with a Jew, but not a gentile. And this is not acceptable to R"I bar Meir, for since she becomes forbidden to her husband through relations with a gentile, as it says in Ketubot [there] "there are promiscuous women" etc., and similarly in the second chapter of Ketubot [26b] "a woman who was imprisoned by gentiles for a capital offense is forbidden to her husband," and similarly regarding Esther "and when I perish, I perish" — this shows that to forbid her to her husband it is not considered like animal relations, so too there is reason to forbid her to the adulterer, and similarly to disqualify an unmarried woman who had relations with a gentile from the priesthood, even though one who had relations with an animal is fit for the priesthood in chapter ha-Ba al Yevimto [Yevamot 59b] — this shows it is not considered like an animal. And specifically regarding a child it says in chapter Nose'in [there 98a] that the Merciful One declared the seed of an idolater ownerless. And in chapter Arusah [Sotah 26b] we say that [a gentile] acquires [a woman] through a gentile and disqualifies from terumah, and it asks: Isn't it obvious? "And she hid herself and she became impure," the Merciful One said regarding both the husband and the adulterer and terumah. You might think: When we say "and she hid herself and she became impure," this refers specifically to where through this relations she is forbidden to him — it teaches us [otherwise]. This shows that even regarding a gentile the term "she became impure" applies to forbid to the husband, and the same applies to the adulterer. And one cannot infer the opposite from there, from the fact that it says one might think since without these relations she is forbidden to him, she is not forbidden to him through the husband — by inference, the gentile himself does not require a verse to forbid her through those relations, and if so, a convert is permitted [to her] through relations that he had while he was a gentile, for if he were forbidden, the verse would work out well even regarding a gentile, and she would be forbidden to him through these relations when he converts, for without these relations she would not be forbidden to him — that is, while he was a gentile, for she is forbidden to have relations with a gentile. And it is difficult: Since there is a prohibition of death for relations with a gentile, why did Mordechai not divorce Esther when she came for the salvation of all Israel? And one can say he was afraid lest the matter become known to the king and it would be publicized through the bill of divorce that she was his wife. For if you do not say so, why did he not divorce her so she would not be forbidden to him through her relations and remarry her afterward, for [regarding] remarrying his divorcee, she is not forbidden through adulterous relations, as proven in Sotah chapter Hayah Mevi [Sotah 18b], for he did not stipulate with her since she would be divorced. And if you ask: That which it says in tractate Avodah Zarah chapter Rabbi Yishmael [Avodah Zarah 54a] regarding "worshiped under coercion" that it is forbidden, and it explains: such as where gentiles coerced him and he bowed to his own animal, and it asks about it: "But coercion — the Merciful One exempted, as it is written: 'and to the maiden do nothing.'" And what is the difficulty? But this verse specifically refers to ground of the world, but one who performs an action is obligated to give up himself, and one who bows to idolatry performs an action, for when gentiles force him [to bow] before idolatry, we cannot establish it [that he did nothing], for if so, he did nothing and this is not bowing, and even appearing like one bowing, like one who stoops and picks up his coins before idolatry — it is not [prohibited]. Moreover, if so, there is no person here forbidding something that is his, but rather the gentiles who force his posture are the ones forbidding his animal to idolatry if it were to be forbidden by this. And one can say the explanation is thus: Coercion — the Merciful One exempted from death, and since He exempted from death of the court, even though he is obligated to give up himself, it is not considered "worshiped" to be forbidden through this worship. And one may properly derive from this verse that he is exempt from death under coercion even when performing an action, even though the maiden did not do anything, for it is compared in this verse — the betrothed maiden to murder: Just as murder — be killed rather than transgress when performing an action, so the maiden — the adulterer be killed or she be killed when performing an action. And about this the verse says "and to the maiden" who performed an action after the fact due to coercion "do nothing." And the same applies to one who bows to idolatry so they will not kill him — one may derive from it to exempt him after the fact even when performing an action. And Rabbi Zeira holds: Since after the fact the worshiper is exempt, what was worshiped is not forbidden through this worship. Even though not under coercion of death he would be liable according to Abaye even though he did not accept it as a god, and according to Rabbah who [holds he is only liable if] he accepted it as a god — that he bowed explicitly for the sake of accepting divinity even though his mouth and heart are not aligned, for with his mouth he states he worships for the sake of divinity but his heart is to his Father in Heaven. And Rava responds to Rabbi Zeira that it is properly considered "worshiped" even though exempt from death. Moreover, one can say it seems to him regarding death of the court that there is no distinction between performing an action and not performing an action, for a woman willingly is liable even though she is ground of the world. And when it exempts there coercion from death of the court, as it is written "and to the maiden do nothing," there is no difference whether one performs an action or does not perform an action.

    License: unknown

    Tap a passage to mark the comments that open with the same words.

    More commentaries

    Rabbeinu Chananel

    תינוקות אין מענין אותם ביוה"כ אבל מחנכין אותן קודם שנה קודם שתים בשביל שיהיו רגילין במצות. אוקימנא בבריא קודם שתים. קודם שנה בחולה. דייקא מתני' כרב הונא ורב נחמן דאמרי מבן ח' ובן ט' מחנכין אותן לשעות.

    בן י' ובן י"א משלימין מדרבנןובן י"ב משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקות ובתינוק בן ט' ובן י' מחנכין אותן לשעות. בן י"א ובן י"ב משלימין אותן מדרבנן.

    והא דתני רבה בר שמואל מחנכין אותן שנה או שנתים סמוך לפרקן משני חינוך זה השלמה מדרבנן היא ודכוותייהו קי"ל דבתראי אינון. ואע"ג דר' יוחנן [ס"ל] דהשלמה מדרבנן ליכא אלא שנה לחולה ושתים לבריא מחנכין אותן לשעות ובפירקן משלימין מדאורייתא. ואקשינן עליה ממתניתין ושני ליה כיון דהני מחמרי ואינון בתראי קי"ל כוותייהו.

    ותרי חינוכי הוו דתניא איזהו חינוך היה רגיל לוכל בב' שעות מאכילין אותו בשלש. בשלש מאכילין אותו בארבע והשלמה נמי דמדרבנן חינוך קרי ליה:

    עוברה שהריחה מאכילין אותה עד שתיישב נפשה.

    ת"ר עוברה שהריחה בשר קדש או בשר חזיר תוחבין לה כוש ברוטבנתיישבה דעתה מוטב ואם לאו מאכילין אותה רוטב עצמה. לא נתיישבה מאכילין אותה איסור עצמו. שאין לך דבר שעומד לפני פקוח נפש חוץ מע"ז וג"ע וש"ד ופשוטה היא:

    Babylonian Talmud · folio map

    Yoma 82a

    Yoma 82a. The full printed text of this folio side — 13 numbered segments, about 381 words — with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

    Open the full commentary page

    Rashi

    It was taught in the Mishna a pregnant woman who smells The fetus smells the smell of the broth and craves it, if she doesn't eat, the two of them are in danger

    According to experts If two doctors say that he is in danger, he should eat

    (Gemara) Reed reed (another translation), she inserts reed into the juice of the meat and she sucks it

    Why do we say "with all your might," etc Let him say the most precious among everything and how much the more so less precious

    When a man rises written about betrothed woman

    What do we learn from murderer about betrothed woman the judgement in the case of the murderer is the same as the other matter (the rape)

    Just as with the pregnant woman, permission is given to the savior to save her from this rape with the life of this rapist. Kill him only until he comes upon her, as it is written: there is nobody to save her, and if there is a savior, they should save her any way possible.

    Let the murderer be killed and not transgress if they said to him kill your fellow, and if you don’t I will kill you, let him be killed and not transgress as it is explained later (in the text)

    1 more comments on this page.

    Rashi on Yoma 82a · Sefaria · CC0

    Tosafot

    Just as a murderer must be killed rather than transgress, so too a betrothed maiden must be killed rather than transgress" — Rashi explained that he does not have the textual reading "she shall be killed," for she is not obligated to give up her life, since she is like the ground of the world [passive]. And with this it is understandable what is asked at the end of chapter Ben Sorer [Sanhedrin 74b]: "But wasn't Esther [forced] in public?" And why doesn't it ask: "But illicit relations require 'being killed rather than transgress' even in private?" According to the reading that does not have "she shall be killed," it works out well, for regarding illicit relations the questioner knew well that being "ground of the world" is effective, but regarding publicness, whose reason is desecration of God's name, it did not occur to him that it is effective. Therefore he asks: "But wasn't Esther in public?" And [the Gemara] answers: For publicness too she was ground of the world and it is effective. And you should know that she, who did not perform an action, need not be killed, for we derive it from murder, and murder itself that requires being killed is because "what makes you think your blood is redder" etc., and this applies where one performs an action. But if one does not perform an action, such as where they want to drop him on a baby to kill it, and if he holds back they will kill him, and in all such cases he need not be killed, for on the contrary, let us say: "What makes you think his blood is redder? Perhaps my blood is redder!" Moreover, the textual comparison regarding murder is written about one who kills with his hands: "as when a man rises against his neighbor and murders him" etc. And Rava who disagrees in chapter Ben Sorer u-Moreh [Sanhedrin 74b] with the answer of "ground of the world" and answers "his own pleasure is different" — meaning when they coerce a person to transgress in something that gives him pleasure, there is no desecration of God's name — disagrees only regarding publicness that "ground of the world" is not effective, but regarding illicit relations he admits that "ground of the world" is effective. Alternatively, even regarding publicness he does not disagree, but adds another reason. And there are those who explain that the reason it does not ask there "But wasn't Esther [guilty of] illicit relations?" is because she did not benefit from the transgression, as he cast impurity into her, as answered regarding Yael in the fourth chapter of Nazir [23b] and in chapter Mitzvat Chalitzah [Yevamot 103b]. When it asks "But doesn't she benefit from the transgression?" it explains thus: Since she benefits, she should be killed for illicit relations. And it answers: The good of the wicked is evil for the righteous. And this is not clear. First, regarding her not being obligated to give up her life, the fact that she did not benefit is not effective, for even without benefit there is still the prohibition of illicit relations, even though we say in chapter ha-Maniach [Bava Kama 32a] "And the souls that do — the doing [requires] benefit for both," nevertheless even without benefit she is liable, such as in an unnatural manner even though it is called affliction. Moreover, it is impossible that she did not benefit somewhat. And furthermore, if she intended to save herself, wherein does Scripture praise her? Didn't she act for her own sake? Moreover, it is obvious he did not wish to kill her, for he was fleeing for his life, and on the contrary, he needed her to hide him so the pursuers would not find him, and she enticed him with words until he came upon her in order to weaken his strength, as is proven from the matter. Rather, one must say it is because we say above it: "Great is a transgression for [God's] sake more than a commandment not for [God's] sake, as it is written: 'Blessed above women in the tent' — who are these? Women in the tent: Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, and Leah" — meaning the Matriarchs intended to build up from their husbands. And it asks: Why does Scripture praise her more than the women in the tent? But she benefited from the transgression! And it answers: She did not have such benefit, for her distress was greater than her pleasure, for the good of the wicked is evil for the righteous. And even though in chapter Mitzvat Chalitzah [Yevamot 103a] it also asks this way, even though there is no mention of "great is a transgression for [God's] sake" etc., one can say it relies on that passage in Nazir, just as Rashi explained that the reading is "he shall be killed," so too the She'iltot in parashat Va'era reads thus. And the She'iltot asked from what Rava said at the beginning of chapter ha-Ba al Yevimto [Yevamot 53b]: "But coercion regarding illicit relations, since there is no erection except willingly," and if so, is there such a thing as coercion regarding him, who says "even illicit relations — be killed rather than transgress"? But this is not coercion but willingness, since there is no erection except willingly. And [the She'iltot] answered: You find it for healing purposes, like that case at the end of chapter Ben Sorer u-Moreh [Sanhedrin 75a] regarding "a man who set his eyes on a certain woman and his heart brought up mud after her" etc., until "let him die and not have relations with her." And the language "be killed" does not fit the explanation, for it should have said "let him die and not transgress." And Rabbeinu [Yaakov] explained that Rava's case refers to when the gentiles press him against an illicit woman and he cannot extricate himself except if they kill him, and about this it says there is no claim of coercion to say he does not perform an action but others perform action upon him, like ground of the world. And one might think he should transgress and not be killed — it teaches us that since he knows himself that if they press him, it is impossible that he not become erect, the erection that he does is considered as if he performs an action even though it comes to him through coercion. And even though there is one who says "one who has relations with a corpse regarding illicit relations is liable," and even so, when they press him and he has relations with a corpse he is exempt since he is coerced, if so, what difference is there between having relations with a dead organ versus with an erection? One can say Rava holds to his reasoning that he said in the second chapter of Shevuot [18a]: "One who has relations with a corpse is exempt." Moreover, one can say he should have separated with minor pleasure but separated with major pleasure, as it says regarding one who has relations with a pure woman and she said to him "I became impure" in the second chapter of Shevuot [also there], and he separated with a living organ is liable even according to the one who says "one who has relations with a corpse is liable," because he should have separated with minor pleasure but separated with major pleasure. Here too, if they pressed him and he had relations as a corpse, or if he became erect for his wife permissibly and they pressed him, he is exempt. But if they pressed him and subsequently he became erect, he is liable. And now according to what we have explained, the reading is "be killed," or alternatively the reading is "even a betrothed maiden shall be killed" works out well, and we establish it as a case where she performed an action, where they coerce her to bring the illicit act upon herself. And that which is asked in Ketubot [3b] "Let them expound that coercion is permitted even though illicit relations require being killed rather than transgressing" — there too they were ground of the world. And Rabbeinu Tam would explain regarding that passage in Ketubot and regarding Esther that [a woman] is not obligated to give up her life for relations with a gentile, for his relations are not [legally considered] relations, and [a woman] is not liable to death for his relations, for the Merciful One declared the seed of an idolater ownerless, as it is written: "whose flesh is the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is the issue of horses," and it is like mere animal relations. And from this he permitted a Jewish woman who apostatized and married a gentile, and she repented, and the gentile converted — to maintain her [as his wife]. For even though it says "just as she is forbidden to the husband, so she is forbidden to the adulterer," this applies to relations with a Jew, but not a gentile. And this is not acceptable to R"I bar Meir, for since she becomes forbidden to her husband through relations with a gentile, as it says in Ketubot [there] "there are promiscuous women" etc., and similarly in the second chapter of Ketubot [26b] "a woman who was imprisoned by gentiles for a capital offense is forbidden to her husband," and similarly regarding Esther "and when I perish, I perish" — this shows that to forbid her to her husband it is not considered like animal relations, so too there is reason to forbid her to the adulterer, and similarly to disqualify an unmarried woman who had relations with a gentile from the priesthood, even though one who had relations with an animal is fit for the priesthood in chapter ha-Ba al Yevimto [Yevamot 59b] — this shows it is not considered like an animal. And specifically regarding a child it says in chapter Nose'in [there 98a] that the Merciful One declared the seed of an idolater ownerless. And in chapter Arusah [Sotah 26b] we say that [a gentile] acquires [a woman] through a gentile and disqualifies from terumah, and it asks: Isn't it obvious? "And she hid herself and she became impure," the Merciful One said regarding both the husband and the adulterer and terumah. You might think: When we say "and she hid herself and she became impure," this refers specifically to where through this relations she is forbidden to him — it teaches us [otherwise]. This shows that even regarding a gentile the term "she became impure" applies to forbid to the husband, and the same applies to the adulterer. And one cannot infer the opposite from there, from the fact that it says one might think since without these relations she is forbidden to him, she is not forbidden to him through the husband — by inference, the gentile himself does not require a verse to forbid her through those relations, and if so, a convert is permitted [to her] through relations that he had while he was a gentile, for if he were forbidden, the verse would work out well even regarding a gentile, and she would be forbidden to him through these relations when he converts, for without these relations she would not be forbidden to him — that is, while he was a gentile, for she is forbidden to have relations with a gentile. And it is difficult: Since there is a prohibition of death for relations with a gentile, why did Mordechai not divorce Esther when she came for the salvation of all Israel? And one can say he was afraid lest the matter become known to the king and it would be publicized through the bill of divorce that she was his wife. For if you do not say so, why did he not divorce her so she would not be forbidden to him through her relations and remarry her afterward, for [regarding] remarrying his divorcee, she is not forbidden through adulterous relations, as proven in Sotah chapter Hayah Mevi [Sotah 18b], for he did not stipulate with her since she would be divorced. And if you ask: That which it says in tractate Avodah Zarah chapter Rabbi Yishmael [Avodah Zarah 54a] regarding "worshiped under coercion" that it is forbidden, and it explains: such as where gentiles coerced him and he bowed to his own animal, and it asks about it: "But coercion — the Merciful One exempted, as it is written: 'and to the maiden do nothing.'" And what is the difficulty? But this verse specifically refers to ground of the world, but one who performs an action is obligated to give up himself, and one who bows to idolatry performs an action, for when gentiles force him [to bow] before idolatry, we cannot establish it [that he did nothing], for if so, he did nothing and this is not bowing, and even appearing like one bowing, like one who stoops and picks up his coins before idolatry — it is not [prohibited]. Moreover, if so, there is no person here forbidding something that is his, but rather the gentiles who force his posture are the ones forbidding his animal to idolatry if it were to be forbidden by this. And one can say the explanation is thus: Coercion — the Merciful One exempted from death, and since He exempted from death of the court, even though he is obligated to give up himself, it is not considered "worshiped" to be forbidden through this worship. And one may properly derive from this verse that he is exempt from death under coercion even when performing an action, even though the maiden did not do anything, for it is compared in this verse — the betrothed maiden to murder: Just as murder — be killed rather than transgress when performing an action, so the maiden — the adulterer be killed or she be killed when performing an action. And about this the verse says "and to the maiden" who performed an action after the fact due to coercion "do nothing." And the same applies to one who bows to idolatry so they will not kill him — one may derive from it to exempt him after the fact even when performing an action. And Rabbi Zeira holds: Since after the fact the worshiper is exempt, what was worshiped is not forbidden through this worship. Even though not under coercion of death he would be liable according to Abaye even though he did not accept it as a god, and according to Rabbah who [holds he is only liable if] he accepted it as a god — that he bowed explicitly for the sake of accepting divinity even though his mouth and heart are not aligned, for with his mouth he states he worships for the sake of divinity but his heart is to his Father in Heaven. And Rava responds to Rabbi Zeira that it is properly considered "worshiped" even though exempt from death. Moreover, one can say it seems to him regarding death of the court that there is no distinction between performing an action and not performing an action, for a woman willingly is liable even though she is ground of the world. And when it exempts there coercion from death of the court, as it is written "and to the maiden do nothing," there is no difference whether one performs an action or does not perform an action.

    Tosafot on Yoma 82a · Sefaria · unknown

    Rabbeinu Chananel

    תינוקות אין מענין אותם ביוה"כ אבל מחנכין אותן קודם שנה קודם שתים בשביל שיהיו רגילין במצות. אוקימנא בבריא קודם שתים. קודם שנה בחולה. דייקא מתני' כרב הונא ורב נחמן דאמרי מבן ח' ובן ט' מחנכין אותן לשעות.

    בן י' ובן י"א משלימין מדרבנן ובן י"ב משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקות ובתינוק בן ט' ובן י' מחנכין אותן לשעות. בן י"א ובן י"ב משלימין אותן מדרבנן.

    והא דתני רבה בר שמואל מחנכין אותן שנה או שנתים סמוך לפרקן משני חינוך זה השלמה מדרבנן היא ודכוותייהו קי"ל דבתראי אינון. ואע"ג דר' יוחנן [ס"ל] דהשלמה מדרבנן ליכא אלא שנה לחולה ושתים לבריא מחנכין אותן לשעות ובפירקן משלימין מדאורייתא. ואקשינן עליה ממתניתין ושני ליה כיון דהני מחמרי ואינון בתראי קי"ל כוותייהו.

    ותרי חינוכי הוו דתניא איזהו חינוך היה רגיל לוכל בב' שעות מאכילין אותו בשלש. בשלש מאכילין אותו בארבע והשלמה נמי דמדרבנן חינוך קרי ליה:

    עוברה שהריחה מאכילין אותה עד שתיישב נפשה.

    ת"ר עוברה שהריחה בשר קדש או בשר חזיר תוחבין לה כוש ברוטב נתיישבה דעתה מוטב ואם לאו מאכילין אותה רוטב עצמה. לא נתיישבה מאכילין אותה איסור עצמו. שאין לך דבר שעומד לפני פקוח נפש חוץ מע"ז וג"ע וש"ד ופשוטה היא:

    Rabbeinu Chananel on Yoma 82a · Sefaria

    Meiri

    המשנה השלישית והכוונה להתחיל בה בביאור החלק השני והוא שאמר התינוקות אין מענין אותם ביום הכפורי' אבל מחנכין אותם קודם לשנה וקודם לשתים בשביל שיהיו רגילים למצות אמר הר"ם מחנכין אותם מלמדים אותם מגזרת חנוך לנער ומרגילין אותן להתענות קודם שיהיו חייבים בתענית בשתי שנים לבריאים ובשנה אחת לחולים ודע כי הזכרים משלש עשרה שנה שלמים והנקבות משתים עשרה שנה שלמים הם חייבות להתענות אם הביאו שתי שערות כי הנקבות סובלות התענית יותר מן הזכרים לפי שמזג הזכרים חם ונמס גופם יותר והזכרי' והנקבות מאחת עשרה שנה מתענין כל היום כלו מדרבנן כדי לחנכן במצות ומתשע שנים ומעשר שנים מתענין שעות מן היום בין זכרים בין נקבות בשוה כדי שיתחנכו להתענות ואין מאכילין אותם עד שיצערם הרעב:

    אמר המאירי התינוקות אין מענין אותם ביום הכפורים אבל מחנכין אותן לפני שנה ולפני שתים כדי להרגילם במצוות משנה זו וסוגיא שלה ופסק היוצא ממנה מבולבל ביד מפרשים ומה שנראה לנו לפסוק בענין זה דרך כלל הוא ששני מיני חנוך הם אחד חנוך שעות ואחד השלמת תענית קודם חיוב זמן תורה וכבר ידעת שזמן חיוב תורה לתינוק הוא בן שלש עשרה שנה ויום אחד ר"ל התחלת זמן שנת ארבע עשרה ולתינוקת בת שתים עשרה שנה ויום אחד ר"ל בתחלת שלש עשרה ודרך כלל נראה שהתינוקות מתחילין לחנוך שעות ארבע שנים לפני פרקם בבריא שתים לשעות ושתים להשלמה מדברי סופרים ובחולה שתים לפני פרקם אחד לחנוך שעות ואחד להשלמה מדברי סופרים וחנוך שעות הוא שאם היו רגילים לאכול בשתי שעות אוכל בשלש או בארבע כפי כח התינוק וענין חולה לא סוף דבר חולה ממש אלא שטבעיו חלושים ואין בו כח לסבול את הענוי:

    נמצא הענין שבתינוק ובבריא בן תשע ובן עשר ר"ל שנגמרו תשע ונכנס לעשירית או נגמרו עשר ונכנס לאחד עשרה מתענין לשעות וכן אחת עשרה ושתים עשרה ר"ל שנגמרו אחת עשרה ונכנס לשנת שתים עשרה או נגמרו שנים עשרה ונכנס לשנת שלש עשרה משלים מדרבנן ובן שלש עשרה ר"ל כשנגמרו שלש עשרה ונכנס לארבע עשרה משלים מן התורה ועל דרך זה בתינוקת בת שמנה ובת תשע לשעות בת עשר ואחת עשרה להשלמה מדברי סופרים ובת שתים עשרה שנה ויום אחד להשלמה מדאורייתא ובחולה בתינוק בן אחת עשרה לשעות בן שתים עשרה להשלמה מדברי סופרים ובתינוקת בת עשר לשעות ובת אחת עשרה להשלמה מדברי סופרים:

    זו היא שיטתנו בענין זה אלא שמצד שנתבלבלו בה קצת מפרשים אני רואה להעירך בבאור סוגיא זו היאך היא מתיישבת לשיטה זו ואיזו גירסא אנו גורסים והענין הוא לשיטתינו שדעת משנתנו להקדים השלמה מדברי סופרים שתים לבריא ואחת לחולה על הדרך שביארנו אבל קודם זמן השלמה של סופרים אין דעת משנתנו להקדים לחנוך שעות אלא שנה אחת אף לבריא ופי' משנתנו התינוקות אין מענין אותם ביום הכפורים אבל מחנכין אותם לפני שנה ולפני שתים ולא דברה משנה זו אלא בחינוך שעות ולפני שנה ולפני שתים אין פירושו לפני פרקן אלא לפני שנה הסמוכה לפרקן ולפני שתים הסמוכות לפרקן נמצא שלפני שנה הוא שתי שנים קודם שנת הפרק ושנה הסמוכה לפרק בהשלמה ולפני שתים הם שלש שנים קודם הפרק ושתים הסמוכות לפרק בהשלמה וזה שאינו תופש לשון לפני פרקן עצמו מפני שברור לו בשנה שלפני פרקן שהוא בדין השלמה מדברי סופרים וכן בשתים לבריא ובא לחקור בשנים שלפני אותן שני השלמה שבהן חינוך שעות לבד ושאלו בגמ' על זה השתא לפני שנים מחנכין לפני שנה מיבעיא ותירצו כאן לחולה כאן לבריא כלומר לחולה שאין לו להשלמת סופרים אלא שנה הסמוכה לפרקן מחנכין אותו לשעות שנה שלפניה שהיא שתים לפני הפרק ולבריא שהוא בהשלמת סופרים שתים הסמוכות לפרקן מחנכין אותן לשעות שנה שלפני השתים נמצא שלדעת משנתנו שאין חינוך שעות לא לבריא ולא לחולה אלא שנה אחת אלא שלבריא מוסיפין לשעות כפי כוחו אבל להשלמה שתים לבריא ואחת לחולה ובאו בגמ' רב הונא ורב נחמן להוסיף לבריא שנה אחרת לחינוך שעות ונמצאו שתים לשעות ושתים להשלמה ולא דיברו בדין חולה כלל אלא שעמד על דעת המשנה לדונו בדין שנה לחינוך שעות ושנה להשלמה מדברי סופרים שעקר כוונתם אינו אלא להשוות שנים של חינוך שעות לשנים של השלמת סופרים וזהו שאמרו אמר רב הונא בן שמנה ובן תשע מחנכין אותם לשעות אלא שבתשע מוסיפין לו שעות יותר מבשמונה בן עשר ובן אחת עשרה משלימין מדברי סופרים בן שתים עשרה משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקת ורב נחמן אמר בן תשע ובן עשר מחנכין לשעות בן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה משלימין מדרבנן בן שלש עשרה משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוק כלומר כל סדר זה הוא בתינוק ורב הונא ורב נחמן לא חלקו כלל אלא שזה דבר בתינוק וזה דבר בתינוקת כמו שכתבנו וכן הלכה לפי שיטתנו כמו שביארנו במשנה ומ"מ בסוגיא זו אמרו עוד ור' יוחנן אמר בן עשר ובן אחת עשרה מחנכין לשעות בן שתים עשרה משלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקת ובן שלש עשרה בתינוק ונראין הדברים שר' יוחנן אין לו השלמה מדברי סופרים כלל אלא חינוך שעות והוא סובר שמחנכין שתי שנים לפני הפרק וזהו שאמר בן עשר ובן אחד עשרה מחנכין לשעות ובן שתים עשרה מדאורייתא וזהו בתינוקת ובן שלש עשרה בתינוק להשלמה דאורייתא ולא הוצרך לומר בו בן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה לשעות שמובן הוא מאליו שאין מוסיפין לתינוק לפני פרקו יותר מבתנוקת לפני פרקה וא"כ בן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה לחנוך של שעות ובן שלש עשרה להשלמת תורה בתינוק וגדולי הפוסקים כתבו בכאן בנוסח זה אע"ג דפליג ר' יוחנן ואמר דהשלמה דרבנן לית ליה קיימא לן כרב הונא ורב נחמן ובת עשר ובת אחת עשרה לתינוקת ובן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה בתינוק משלימין מדרבנן ובן תשע ובן עשר מחנכין לשעות פירושו על התינוק והיה להם להזכיר בת שמנה ובת תשע מחנכין לשעות בתינוקת אלא שקצרו בלשונם:

    זהו הנראה לנו בדבריהם להסכימם עם שיטתנו:

    וסוגית הגמרא צריך לישבה לשיטה זו וגירסא שלנו ופירושה כך היא תנן התינוקות אין מענין אותן ביום הכפורים אבל מחנכין אותן לפני שנה ולפני שתים בשלמא לרב הונא ורב נחמן לפני שנה לדבריהם לפני שתים לדבריהם ר"ל שמאחר שביארנו במשנתנו לפני שנה הסמוכה לפרקן ולפני שתים הסמוכות לפרקן ולא תפש בה לפני פרקן ממש הורה שבשנה שלפני פרקן ממש יש בו השלמת סופרים וא"כ אין בה מקום להזכרת חנוך שעות וביאר הוא דין חנוך שעות לשנה שלפני השלמת סופרים וכן במה שאמר לפני שתים ור"ל בשתיהן לפני שנה שמשלימין בה מדבריהם בחולה ולפני שתים שמשלימין בהם מדבריהם בבריא אלא לר' יוחנן אחר שאין שם השלמה מדברי סופרים היה לו לומר לפני פרקן ממש ותירץ אימא שנה או שתים סמוך לפרקן ר"ל שנה לחולה ושתים לבריא ומ"מ רוב ספרים גורסין בשלמא לרב הונא ורב נחמן שנה לדבריהם שתים דאורייתא ולבעלי גירסא זו פירוש אחר ופסק אחר שלא כדעתנו ומ"מ גירסא זו שכתבנו ר"ל לפני שנה לדבריהם לפני שתים לדבריהם כן מצאנוה בגמרא ספרדית מדוייקת הרבה ואף הנוסחא האחרת אפשר לפרשה לשיטתינו שהיה המקשה סבור שלא דברה משנתינו אלא בחולני ואמר לפני שנה של השלמת סופרים שהיא שתים לפני השלמה של תורה ואחר כך הקשו לרב הונא ורב נחמן ממה שאמרו שם תני רבה בר שמואל התינוקות אין מענין אותם ביום הכפורים אבל מחנכין אותם שנה או שתים סמוך לפרקם נמצא שהוא סומך חנוך שעות לפרקן ממש ואין השלמת סופרים בנתים ותירץ מאי חנוך השלמת סופרים שהרי שני מיני חנוך הם כמו שביארנו במשנה:

    זהו ביאור הסוגיא ופסק שלה לדעתינו וכבר הסכמנו דבריהם של גדולי הפוסקים לשטה זו וגדולי הדורות שלפנינו נוטים לדעת אחרת לומר שרב הונא ורב נחמן חולקים זה עם זה ודעתם שרב הונא ורב נחמן ור' יוחנן דעת שלשתם שוה לחנוך שעות שהוא שתי שנים לפני זמן השלמה אם להשלמת סופרים לרב הונא ורב נחמן אם להשלמת תורה לרבי יוחנן וכן דעת שלשתם שוה להשלמת תורה שהיא שתים עשרה לתינוקת ושלש עשרה לתינוק לא נחלקו אלא בהשלמה מדברי סופרים שלדעת רב הונא היא שתי שנים קודם הפרק בין לתינוק בין לתינוקת כל אחד לפי פרקו ולרב נחמן שנה אחת לפני הפרק בין לתינוק בין לתינוקת ולר' יוחנן אין השלמה מדברי סופרים כלל לא בתינוק ולא בתינוקת:

    זהו כלל דבריהם והם גורסין בשמועה זו אמר רב הונא בן שמנה ובן תשע לחינוך שעות בן עשר ובן אחת עשרה להשלמת סופרים בת שתים עשרה להשלמת תורה בתינוקת ובתינוק בן תשע ובן עשר לשעות בן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה להשלמת סופרים ובן שלש עשרה להשלמה של תורה ולרב נחמן בן תשע ובן עשר לחנוך שעות בן אחת עשרה להשלמת סופרים בן שתים עשרה לשל תורה בתינוקת ובתינוק בן עשר ובן אחת עשרה לשעות בן שתים עשרה להשלמת סופרים בן שלש עשרה לשל תורה ולר' יוחנן בן אחת עשרה ובן שתים עשרה לשעות ובן שלש עשרה להשלמת תורה בתינוק ובתינוקת בת עשר ובת אחת עשרה לשעות ובת שתים עשרה להשלמת תורה ואין גורסין בדברי רב הונא תינוקת ולא בדברי רב נחמן תינוק זו היא שיטתם וכבר טרחו ליישב את הסוגיא לדעתם וגדולי המחברים לא נתחוורו לנו דבריהם בשמועה זו אלא שאף גדולי המגיהים הרגישו בהם וכן יש בסוגיא זו להרבה מפרשים דרכים אחרים הן לענין ביאור הן לענין פסק וכבר כתבתי רובם בחיבור התשובה בהלכות יום הכפורים שבו ועיקר הדברים כמו שכתבנו:

    15 more comments on this page.

    Meiri on Yoma 82a · Sefaria

    Maharsha (Chidushei Halachot)

    גמ' בשלמא לרב הונא ור"נ לפני שנה ולפני שתים לפני שנה לדבריהם ולפני שתים לדבריהם כו' כ"ה בכל נוסחות גמרות שלנו וטעות הוא שנפל בספרים דהא לפרש"י הוי לפני ב' דהיינו ג' שנים לחולה ע"כ היינו לפני ב' דאורייתא דהיינו מבן ט' ויום אחד עד בן שתים עשרה ויום אחד שמשלימין מדאורייתא בתינוקת ולפירוש הרא"ש שלא הוזכר כלל השלמה דרבנן אלא דלפני שנה דהיינו ב' שנים ולפני ב' דהיינו ג' שנים כולה בהשלמה דאורייתא איירי בחולה ולא נקט לפני שנה אלא בדרך לא זו אף זו ולהורות דאיכא לפלוגי בין חולה ובין בריא ע"ש ברא"ש אלא דה"ג בשלמא לרב הונא ור"נ לפני שנה ולפני שתים ניחא [אלא] לרבי יוחנן כו' והשתא רש"י מפרש לה דה"ק לפני שנה דהיינו ב' שנים להשלמה דרבנן דהיינו לפני ב' שהוא ג' שנים להשלמה דאורייתא וכולה בחולה והרא"ש פירש דבין ב' שנים ובין ג' שנים להשלמה דאורייתא בחולה קאמר וב' שנים בכלל ג' שנים הוו בדרך לא זו אף זו ודו"ק:

    בפרש"י בד"ה מחנכין לשעות הס"ד ואח"כ מ"ה בן י' כו' ובן י"א כו' מדרבנן הס"ד ולא היה כתוב בספרים שלו מחנכין אותו לשעות אלא מחנכין סתם וק"ל:

    בד"ה ת"ש כו' ולפני ב' הס"ד ובד"ה אלא לרב הונא ור"נ קשיא כו' כצ"ל:

    תוס' בד"ה אלא לרב הונא כו' ולא מצי לשנויי דסמוך לפרקן להשלמה דדבריהם קאמר כו' עכ"ל לכאורה דבריהם תמוהים דהיאך מצאנו ידינו ורגלינו לומר שנה אחת להשלמת דבריהם דהא פחות שבחינוכין אף להשלמה דרבנן לא הוי אלא ב' שנים לחולה מבן ט' עד י"א ולבריא מבן ח' עד בן י' ונראה לפרש שהתוס' פירשו הסוגיא כדברי הרא"ש דהא דבעי למימר לעולם לפני שנה ולפני שתים דהיינו ב' וג' שנים בחולה ניחא בהשלמה דאורייתא ולא איצטריך למיתני ב' שנים אלא דלא זו אף זו קאמר ולא שמעינן דיש לחלק בין בריא לחולה כמ"ש הרא"ש ה"נ איכא למימר הכא בהך ברייתא שנה א' או ב' שנים סמוך לפירקן בהשלמה דרבנן בחולה ולא איצטריך למיתני שנה א' אלא דלא זו אף זו קאמר לאשמועינן דאיכא לפלוגי בין חולה לבריא ודו"ק:

    בד"ה מה רוצח כו' אמאי הכתוב משבחה טפי מנשים כו' משכחת לה להתרפאות כי ההיא כו' כצ"ל:

    Chidushei Halachot on Yoma 82a · Sefaria

    Gilyon HaShas

    גמ' השלמה דרבנן ליכא עיין כתובות דף נ ע"א תס' ד"ה ובת תריסר:

    Gilyon HaShas on Yoma 82a · Sefaria

    What this page contains

    A full text unit for Yoma, daf 82, Amud Aleph, about 381 words in 13 segments. Segment numbers make it easier to return to an exact line; the commentaries below are quoted from their printed sources.

    A unit-by-unit map of all 13 segments on this page: opening words, the moves the text actually makes and a link back to that exact segment.

    1. Segment 117 words

      Opens “מתני׳ התינוקות אין מענין אותן ביוה"כ אבל…”

    2. Segment 218 words

      Opens “גמ׳ השתא בפני שתים מחנכין להו בפני…”

      Named: רב חסדא.

    3. Segment 358 words

      Opens “א"ר הונא: בן ח' ובן ט' מחנכין…”

      Named: רב נחמן.

    4. Segment 428 words

      Opens “תנן: התינוקות אין מענין אותן ביוה"כ אבל…”

      Named: רב הונא, רב נחמן.

    5. Segment 514 words

      Opens “אלא לרבי יוחנן, קשיא? אמר לך רבי…”

      Named: רבי יוחנן.

    6. Segment 636 words

      Opens “ת"ש דתני רבה בר שמואל: תינוקות אין…”

      Named: רב הונא, רב נחמן, רבה, שמואל.

    7. Segment 728 words

      Opens “ומי קרי לחינוך השלמה, והא תניא: אי…”

      Named: רבא, עולא.

    8. Segment 825 words

      Opens “מתני׳ עוברה שהריחה מאכילין אותה עד שתשיב…”

    9. Segment 950 words

      Opens “גמ׳ ת"ר עוברה שהריחה בשר קודש או…”

    10. Segment 1027 words

      Opens “ע"ז מנלן דתניא, ר"א אומר: אם נאמר…”

    11. Segment 1124 words

      Opens “אם יש לך אדם שגופו חביב עליו…”

    12. Segment 1230 words

      Opens “גילוי עריות ושפיכת דמים מנא לן דתניא,…”

      Named: רבי אומר.

    13. Segment 1326 words

      Opens “אלא ה"ז בא ללמד ונמצא למד מה…”

    Sages named on this page

    • Rabbi Huna · Amoraim · Second Generation Amoraim

      Rabbi Huna, a preeminent student of Rav, led the Sura Yeshiva for forty years.

      Source: Yoma 82a · Segment 3 — “א"ר הונא: בן ח' ובן ט' מחנכין אותו לשעות.

    Smart source finder

    Type a reference or pick tractate, book or part and the exact unit — the finder resolves it to a page on this site and shows which sages cite it.

    Resolved to: Yoma 82a

    Open in the reader

    Source: he.wikisource.org (Wikisource Talmud Bavli) · License: CC-BY-SA

    Edition: Wikisource Talmud Bavli · Wording checked against the source on 07/09/2026