Shabbat 149b

וּכְדִבְרֵי בֵּית הִלֵּל אַף מִשּׁוּם רִבִּית.

And according to Beit Hillel, they even violate the prohibition of interest. In Beit Hillel’s view, it is prohibited to loan or return objects without determining their monetary value, lest the object rise in value and the borrower end up returning an item that is more expensive than the one he borrowed.

אִי הָכִי בָּנָיו וּבְנֵי בֵּיתוֹ נָמֵי! בָּנָיו וּבְנֵי בֵּיתוֹ הַיְינוּ טַעְמָא — כִּדְרַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב. דְּאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: מוּתָּר לְהַלְווֹת בָּנָיו וּבְנֵי בֵיתוֹ בְּרִבִּית כְּדֵי לְהַטְעִימָן טַעַם רִבִּית.

The Gemara asks: If this is so, and one violates so many prohibitions when drawing lots, it should be prohibited to do so with one’s children and family members also. The Gemara answers: With regard to one’s children and family members, this is the reason that it is permitted: It is like the ruling that Rav Yehuda said that Rav said, for Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: It is permitted to loan to one’s children and family members with interest, in order to let them experience a taste of how difficult it is to repay a loan taken with interest. Also, in the case of family members, all the money, including the money used to repay the loan, belongs to the same person. Therefore, there is no real prohibition of interest.

אִי הָכִי, מָנָה גְּדוֹלָה כְּנֶגֶד מָנָה קְטַנָּה נָמֵי!

The Gemara asks: If this is so, and everything in this case actually belongs to the father, and he uses a lottery system in order to educate his family, it should be permitted to cast lots for a big portion against a small portion also.

אִין הָכִי נָמֵי, וְחַסּוֹרֵי מִיחַסְּרָא וְהָכִי קָתָנֵי: מֵפִיס אָדָם עִם בָּנָיו וְעִם בְּנֵי בֵיתוֹ עַל הַשֻּׁלְחָן אֲפִילּוּ מָנָה גְּדוֹלָה כְּנֶגֶד מָנָה קְטַנָּה. מַאי טַעְמָא? — כִּדְרַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב. עִם בָּנָיו וְעִם בְּנֵי בֵּיתוֹ — אִין, עִם אֲחֵרִים — לָא. מַאי טַעְמָא? כִּדְרַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל. מָנָה גְּדוֹלָה כְּנֶגֶד מָנָה קְטַנָּה — אַף בַּחוֹל לַאֲחֵרִים אָסוּר. מַאי טַעְמָא? — מִשּׁוּם קוּבְיָא.

The Gemara answers: Yes, it is indeed so, and the mishna is incomplete and it teaches the following: A person may draw lots with his children and his family members at the table, and he may even do so with a large portion against a small portion. What is the reason for this? It is in accordance with the ruling that Rav Yehuda said that Rav said. Although with one’s children and family members, yes, this is permitted, with others it is not. What is the reason for this? It is in accordance with the ruling that Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: Raffling a large portion against a small portion is prohibited to do for other people, even on a weekday. What is the reason? Due to the prohibition against gambling with dice, which is prohibited by rabbinic law as a form of theft.

מְטִילִין חֲלָשִׁין עַל וְכוּ׳. מַאי ״אֲבָל לֹא עַל הַמָּנוֹת״? אָמַר רַבִּי יַעֲקֹב בְּרֵיהּ דְּבַת יַעֲקֹב: אֲבָל לֹא עַל הַמָּנוֹת שֶׁל חוֹל בְּיוֹם טוֹב. פְּשִׁיטָא! מַהוּ דְתֵימָא: הוֹאִיל וּכְתִיב ״וְעַמְּךָ כִּמְרִיבֵי כֹּהֵן״, אֲפִילּוּ מָנוֹת דְּחוֹל נָמֵי. קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

The mishna taught that one may draw lots for the sacrifices but not for the specific portions. This statement is not entirely clear, and the Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the phrase: But not for the specific portions? Rabbi Ya’akov, son of the daughter of Ya’akov, said that it means: But one may not draw lots for the weekday [ ḥol ] portions on a Festival. The Gemara challenges: This is obvious. The Gemara answers: Lest you say that since the priests are naturally quarrelsome, which the Sages derive from that which is written: “Yet let no man strive, neither let any man reprove, for your people are like those that strive with the priest” (Hosea 4:4), and in order to maintain peace between them even lotteries for weekday portions were also permitted, therefore, the mishna teaches us that this is not the case.

וְאָמַר רַבִּי יַעֲקֹב בְּרֵיהּ דְּבַת יַעֲקֹב: כָּל שֶׁחֲבֵירוֹ נֶעֱנָשׁ עַל יָדוֹ — אֵין מַכְנִיסִין אוֹתוֹ בִּמְחִיצָתוֹ שֶׁל הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא. מְנָלַן? אִילֵּימָא מִשּׁוּם דִּכְתִיב: ״וַיֹּאמֶר ה׳ מִי יְפַתֶּה אֶת אַחְאָב וְיַעַל וְיִפּוֹל בְּרָמוֹת גִּלְעָד וַיֹּאמֶר זֶה בְּכֹה וְזֶה אֹמֵר בְּכֹה. וַיֵּצֵא הָרוּחַ וַיַּעֲמוֹד לִפְנֵי ה׳ וַיֹּאמֶר אֲנִי אֲפַתֶּנּוּ וְגוֹ׳ וַיֹּאמֶר אֵצֵא וְהָיִיתִי רוּחַ שֶׁקֶר בְּפִי כׇּל נְבִיאָיו וַיֹּאמֶר תְּפַתֶּה וְגַם תּוּכָל צֵא וַעֲשֵׂה כֵן״,

Having quoted Rabbi Ya’akov, son of the daughter of Ya’akov, the Gemara brings another teaching of this amora . And Rabbi Ya’akov, son of the daughter of Ya’akov, said: Anyone who causes another to be punished on his account, they do not bring him within the partition of the Holy One, Blessed be He, even if he is right. The Gemara asks: From where do we know this? If you say it is because of what is written in the prophecy of Micaiah, that proof can be disputed. It is written: “And the Lord said: Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramot Gilad? And one said: In this manner, and another said: In that manner. And the spirit came out and stood before the Lord and said: I will entice him. And the Lord said to it: With what? And it said: I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all of his prophets. And He said: You shall entice him and will prevail. Go out and do this” (I Kings 22:20–22).

וְאָמְרִינַן: מַאי ״רוּחַ״, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: זֶה רוּחוֹ שֶׁל נָבוֹת. וּמַאי ״צֵא״ אָמַר רַב: צֵא מִמְּחִיצָתִי. וְדִילְמָא הָתָם הַיְינוּ טַעְמָא, דִּכְתִיב ״דּוֹבֵר שְׁקָרִים לֹא יִכּוֹן״?!

And we said: What is this spirit? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: This is the spirit of Naboth the Jezreelite, who asked to avenge his death at the hands of Ahab. And what is the meaning of the words: Go out, which God commanded him? Rav said: It means that he was given permission to entice Ahab, but God said: Leave from within My partition. Therefore, it seems that the spirit of Naboth was told to leave God’s area because it caused Ahab to be punished. The Gemara rejects this proof: But perhaps there, the reason is as it is written: “One who speaks lies shall not dwell before My eyes” (Psalms 101:7), and this is the only reason that the spirit of Naboth was removed from within God’s partition.

אֶלָּא מֵהָכָא: ״שָׂבַעְתָּ קָלוֹן מִכָּבוֹד שְׁתֵה גַם אַתָּה וְהֵעָרֵל וְגוֹ׳״. ״שָׂבַעְתָּ קָלוֹן מִכָּבוֹד״ — זֶה נְבוּכַדְנֶצַּר. ״שְׁתֵה גַם אַתָּה וְהֵעָרֵל״ — זֶה צִדְקִיָּה. חֲדָא, דְּכוּלֵּיהּ קְרָא בִּנְבוּכַדְנֶצַּר כְּתִיב. וְעוֹד: צִדְקִיָּה צַדִּיקָא מַאי הֲוָה לֵיהּ לְמִיעְבַּד לֵיהּ, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁבִּקֵּשׁ אוֹתוֹ רָשָׁע לַעֲשׂוֹת לְאוֹתוֹ צַדִּיק כָּךְ וְכוּ׳.

Rather, it is derived from here: “You are filled with shame instead of honor. Drink, you, and be like one who is uncircumcised, the cup of the Lord’s right hand will turn to you and filthiness shall be upon your glory” (Habakkuk 2:16). The verse is expounded: “You are filled with shame instead of honor”; this is referring to Nebuchadnezzar. “Drink, you, and be like one who is uncircumcised”; this is referring to Zedekiah, who was also punished for being the cause of Nebuchadnezzar’s punishment, as will be explained. The Gemara rejects this proof: One objection to this is that the entire verse is written about Nebuchadnezzar. And furthermore, with regard to Zedekiah, the righteous one, what could he have done to him? For Rav Yehuda said that Rav said about this matter: When that wicked man wanted to do this to that righteous man, his foreskin was stretched, as will be explained.

אֶלָּא מֵהָכָא: ״גַּם עֲנוֹשׁ לַצַּדִּיק לֹא טוֹב״, אֵין ״לֹא טוֹב״ אֶלָּא רָע, וּכְתִיב: ״כִּי לֹא אֵל חָפֵץ רֶשַׁע אָתָּה לֹא יְגוּרְךָ רָע״ — צַדִּיק אַתָּה ה׳ וְלֹא יָגוּר בִּמְגוּרְךָ רָע.

Rather, the basis for this idea is from here: “Punishment is also not good for the righteous” (Proverbs 17:26), meaning that it is not good for a righteous person to issue punishment. There is no meaning of not good other than evil. And it says: “For You are not a God that desires wickedness, evil will not dwell with You” (Psalms 5:5), meaning that You, God, are righteous and evil shall not dwell with You in Your place of dwelling. Even a righteous person who punishes someone and is called evil and cannot dwell within God’s partition.

מַאי מַשְׁמַע דְּהַאי ״חֲלָשִׁים״ לִישָּׁנָא דְפוּרָא הוּא? — דִּכְתִיב: ״אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם הֵילֵל בֶּן שָׁחַר נִגְדַּעְתָּ לָאָרֶץ חוֹלֵשׁ עַל גּוֹיִם וְגוֹ׳״, אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר רַב הוּנָא: מְלַמֵּד שֶׁהָיָה מֵטִיל פּוּר עַל גְּדוֹלֵי מַלְכוּת לֵידַע אֵיזֶה בֶּן יוֹמוֹ שֶׁל מִשְׁכַּב זָכוּר. וּכְתִיב: ״כׇּל מַלְכֵי גוֹיִם כּוּלָּם וְגוֹ׳״, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: שֶׁנָּחוּ מִמִּשְׁכַּב זָכוּר.

The Gemara asks: From where may it be inferred that this term used in the mishna, ḥalashim , is a word for lots? As it is written: “How have you fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How have you been cut down to the ground, casting lots [ ḥolesh ] over the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12), and Rabba bar Rav Huna said: This verse teaches us that he, Nebuchadnezzar, would cast lots [ ḥolesh ] for the royal leaders of the nations he had captured, in order to know whose day it was to service him with homosexual relations. And it is written: “All the kings of the nations, all of them sleep in glory, every one in his own house” (Isaiah 14:18). And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The meaning of this verse is that they rested from homosexual relations.

וְאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: כׇּל יָמָיו שֶׁל אוֹתוֹ רָשָׁע לֹא נִמְצָא שְׂחוֹק בְּפִי כׇּל בְּרִיָּה, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״נָחָה שָׁקְטָה כׇּל הָאָרֶץ פָּצְחוּ רִנָּה״, מִכְּלָל דְּעַד הַשְׁתָּא לָא הֲוָה רִנָּה.

And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: All of the days of the life of that wicked man, laughter could not be found in the mouth of any creature, as it is stated: “The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; they break forth into singing” (Isaiah 14:7). This proves by inference that until now there was not any song.

וְאָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אָסוּר לַעֲמוֹד בְּבֵיתוֹ שֶׁל אוֹתוֹ רָשָׁע, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וּשְׂעִירִים יְרַקְּדוּ שָׁם״.

And Rabbi Yitzḥak said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: It is prohibited even nowadays to stand in the ruins of the house of that wicked man, Nebuchadnezzar, in Babylonia, for it is stated about that place: “And demons shall dance there” (Isaiah 13:21). There is concern that one may be injured by the harmful forces there (Maharsha).

וְאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁבִּיקֵּשׁ אוֹתוֹ רָשָׁע, לַעֲשׂוֹת לְאוֹתוֹ צַדִּיק כָּךְ, נִמְשְׁכָה עׇרְלָתוֹ שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת אַמָּה, וְהָיְתָה מְחַזֶּרֶת עַל כׇּל הַמְּסִיבָּה כּוּלָּהּ. שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״שָׂבַעְתָּ קָלוֹן מִכָּבוֹד שְׁתֵה גַם אַתָּה וְהֵעָרֵל״, עָרֵל בְּגִימַטְרִיָּא שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת הָוֵי.

And Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: At the time when that wicked man, Nebuchadnezzar, wanted to do to that righteous man, Zedekiah, this act of sodomy, his foreskin was stretched three hundred cubits, and it surrounded the entire company at Nebuchadnezzar’s feast, as it is stated: “Woe to one who gives his neighbor drink, who puts your venom in and also makes him drunk so that you may look upon their nakedness. You are filled with shame instead of honor. Drink, you, and be like one who is uncircumcised [ vehe’arel ]” (Habakkuk 2:15–16). The word arel , which refers here to one who is uncircumcised and also connotes the foreskin, has a numerical value of three hundred.

וְאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁיָּרַד אוֹתוֹ רָשָׁע לְגֵיהִנָּם רָעֲשׁוּ כׇּל יוֹרְדֵי גֵיהִנָּם, אָמְרוּ: שֶׁמָּא לִמְשׁוֹל עֲלֵיהֶם הוּא בָּא, אוֹ לֵיחָלוֹת כְּמוֹתָם הוּא בָּא? שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״גַּם אַתָּה חוּלֵּיתָ כָמוֹנוּ אֵלֵינוּ נִמְשָׁלְתָּ״, יָצְתָה בַּת קוֹל וְאָמְרָה: ״מִמִּי נָעָמְתָּ רְדָה וְהׇשְׁכְּבָה אֶת עֲרֵלִים״.

And Rav Yehuda also said that Rav said: When that wicked man descended into Gehenna, everyone who had already descended to Gehenna trembled, and they said, referring to themselves in third person: Perhaps he is coming to rule over them; or is he coming to be weakened like them? As it is stated: “They all answer and say to you: Have you also become weak like us? Have you become like us [ eleinu nimshalta ]?” (Isaiah 14:10). The Hebrew phrase: Eleinu nimshalta , can mean: Have you become like us, or alternatively: Have you come to rule over us. A Divine Voice emerged and said: “Whom do you pass in beauty? Go down and be laid with the uncircumcised” (Ezekiel 32:19). This confirmed that Nebuchadnezzar has the same status in Gehenna as everyone else.

״אֵיךְ שָׁבַת נוֹגֵשׂ שָׁבְתָה מַדְהֵבָה״, אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: שָׁבְתָה אוּמָּה זוֹ שֶׁאָמְרָה

On a related note, the verse states: “And you shall take up this parable against the king of Babylonia and you shall say: How has the oppressor ceased. The exactor of gold has ceased” (Isaiah 14:4). Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: The meaning of this verse is that this nation that said: