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Chullin 5a

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Babylonian Talmud · folio map

Chullin 5a

Chullin 5a. The full printed text of this folio side — 15 numbered segments, about 382 words — with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

Original text

Segment 1

לָא הֲוָה מְפַלֵּיג נַפְשֵׁיהּ מִינֵּיהּ, מְנָלַן? אִילֵּימָא מִדִּכְתִיב ״כָּמוֹנִי כָמוֹךָ כְּעַמִּי כְעַמֶּךָ״, אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה ״כְּסוּסַי כְּסוּסֶיךָ״ הָכִי נָמֵי? אֶלָּא מָה דְּהָוֵי אַסּוּסֶיךָ תֶּהֱוֵי אַסּוּסַי, הָכִי נָמֵי מַאי דְּהָוֵי עֲלָךְ וְעִילָּוֵי עַמָּךְ תֶּיהֱוֵי עֲלַי וְעִילָּוֵי עַמִּי.

The Gemara rejects that suggestion: Jehoshaphat would not have separated himself from Ahab to eat and drink by himself, as he relied on him completely. From where do we derive this? If we say that it is derived from that which is written that Jehoshaphat said to Ahab: “I am as you are, my people as your people” (I Kings 22:4), i.e., I am equally reliable, this is difficult, as, if that is so, then when Jehoshaphat said at the conclusion of that verse: “My horses as your horses,” can this also be referring to reliability? Rather, Jehoshaphat’s intention was: That which will befall your horses will befall my horses; so too, that which will befall you and your people will befall me and my people.

Segment 2

אֶלָּא מֵהָכָא: ״וּמֶלֶךְ יִשְׂרָאֵל וִיהוֹשָׁפָט מֶלֶךְ יְהוּדָה יֹשְׁבִים אִישׁ עַל כִּסְאוֹ מְלֻבָּשִׁים בְּגָדִים בְּגֹרֶן פֶּתַח שַׁעַר שֹׁמְרוֹן״. מַאי גּוֹרֶן? אִילֵּימָא גּוֹרֶן מַמָּשׁ, אַטּוּ שַׁעַר שׁוֹמְרוֹן גּוֹרֶן הֲוָה? אֶלָּא כִּי גוֹרֶן, דִּתְנַן: סַנְהֶדְרִין הָיְתָה כַּחֲצִי גוֹרֶן עֲגוּלָּה כְּדֵי שֶׁיְּהוּ רוֹאִין זֶה אֶת זֶה.

Rather, it is derived that Jehoshaphat relied upon Ahab from here: “And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat, king of Judea, sat each on his throne, arrayed in their robes, in a threshing floor, at the entrance of the gate of Samaria” (I Kings 22:10). The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the term threshing floor in this context? If we say that it was an actual threshing floor; is that to say that the gate of Samaria was a threshing floor? Typically, the gate of a city was the place of assembly for the city’s judges and elders, not a threshing floor. Rather, they were sitting in a configuration like that of a circular threshing floor, i.e., facing each other in a display of amity, as we learned in a mishna ( Sanhedrin 36b): A Sanhedrin was arranged in the same layout as half of a circular threshing floor, so that the judges would see each other. This verse demonstrates that Jehoshaphat deliberated with Ahab and relied on his judgment.

Segment 3

לֵימָא מְסַיַּיע לֵיהּ, ״וְהָעֹרְבִים מְבִיאִים לוֹ לֶחֶם וּבָשָׂר בַּבֹּקֶר וְלֶחֶם וּבָשָׂר בָּעָרֶב״, וְאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: מִבֵּי טַבָּחֵי דְאַחְאָב. עַל פִּי הַדִּבּוּר שָׁאנֵי.

The Gemara suggests: Let us say that the verse written with regard to Elijah supports the opinion of Rav Anan. The verse states: “And the ravens [ orevim ] brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening” (I Kings 17:6); and Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: They would bring the meat from the slaughterhouse of Ahab. Clearly, Elijah would not have eaten the meat if Ahab’s slaughter was not valid. The Gemara responds: Since he ate the meat according to the word of God, the case of Elijah is different, and no proof may be cited from there.

Segment 4

מַאי עוֹרְבִים? אָמַר רָבִינָא: עוֹרְבִים מַמָּשׁ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אַדָּא בַּר מִנְיוֹמֵי: וְדִלְמָא תְּרֵי גַבְרֵי דְּהָוֵי שְׁמַיְיהוּ עוֹרְבִים! מִי לָא כְּתִיב: ״וַיַּהַרְגוּ אֶת עוֹרֵב בְּצוּר עוֹרֵב וְאֶת זְאֵב וְגוֹ׳״? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִיתְרְמַאי מִילְּתָא דְּתַרְוַיְיהוּ הֲוָה שְׁמַיְיהוּ עוֹרְבִים?

The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of orevim in this context? Ravina said: They were actual ravens. Rav Adda bar Minyumi said to him: And perhaps they were two men whose names were Oreb? Isn’t it written: “And they slew Oreb at the Rock of Oreb, and Zeeb they slew at the winepress of Zeeb” (Judges 7:25), indicating that Oreb is a person’s name? Ravina said to him: Did the matter just so happen that the names of both of the people supplying Elijah with food were Oreb? The improbability of this occurrence indicates that they were actual ravens.

Segment 5

וְדִלְמָא עַל שֵׁם מְקוֹמָן! מִי לָא כְּתִיב: ״וַאֲרָם יָצְאוּ גְדוּדִים וַיִּשְׁבּוּ מֵאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל נַעֲרָה קְטַנָּה״, וְקַשְׁיָא לַן: קָרֵי לַהּ ״נַעֲרָה״ וְקָרֵי לַהּ ״קְטַנָּה״, וְאָמַר רַבִּי פְּדָת: קְטַנָּה דְּמִן נְעוֹרָן! אִם כֵּן ״עוֹרְבִיִּים״ מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ.

The Gemara suggests: And perhaps they are called orevim after the name of their place of origin. Isn’t it written: “And the Arameans had gone out in bands, and had brought away captive out of the land of Israel a minor young woman [ na’ara ketana ]” (II Kings 5:2)? And it is difficult for us to understand why the verse calls her a young woman and also calls her a minor, which are two different stages in a girl’s development. And Rabbi Pedat said: She was a minor girl who was from a place called Naaran. Perhaps in the case of Elijah they were two people from a place called Oreb. The Gemara rejects that suggestion: If so, Orebites [ oreviyyim ] should have been written in the verse.

Segment 6

לֵימָא מְסַיַּיע לֵיהּ: הַכֹּל שׁוֹחֲטִין, וַאֲפִילּוּ כּוּתִי, וַאֲפִילּוּ עָרֵל, וַאֲפִילּוּ יִשְׂרָאֵל מְשׁוּמָּד. הַאי עָרֵל הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִילֵּימָא שֶׁמֵּתוּ אֶחָיו מֵחֲמַת מִילָּה – הַאי יִשְׂרָאֵל מְעַלְּיָא הוּא! אֶלָּא פְּשִׁיטָא מְשׁוּמָּד לַעֲרֵלוּת.

§ Let us say that the following baraita supports the opinion of Rav Anan, who says that it is permitted to eat from the slaughter of a Jew who is a transgressor with regard to idol worship: Everyone slaughters, and even a Samaritan, and even an uncircumcised man, and even a Jewish transgressor. The Gemara analyzes the baraita : This uncircumcised man, what are the circumstances? If we say that he is an uncircumcised man whose brothers died due to circumcision and the concern is that he might suffer a similar fate, clearly one may eat from what he slaughters, as he is a full-fledged Jew and not a transgressor at all. Rather, it is obvious that he is a transgressor with regard to remaining uncircumcised, as he refuses to be circumcised.

Segment 7

אֵימָא סֵיפָא: וַאֲפִילּוּ יִשְׂרָאֵל מְשׁוּמָּד, הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי מְשׁוּמָּד לְדָבָר אֶחָד – הַיְינוּ מְשׁוּמָּד לַעֲרֵלוּת, אֶלָּא לָאו מְשׁוּמָּד לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה, וְכִדְרַב עָנָן.

Say the latter clause of the baraita : And even a Jewish transgressor. What are the circumstances? If he is a transgressor with regard to one matter, that is identical to the case of a transgressor with regard to remaining uncircumcised. Rather, is it not that he is a transgressor with regard to idol worship, and it is in accordance with the opinion of Rav Anan?

Segment 8

לָא, לְעוֹלָם אֵימַר לָךְ: מְשׁוּמָּד לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה לָא, דְּאָמַר מָר: חֲמוּרָה עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה, שֶׁכׇּל הַכּוֹפֵר בָּהּ כְּמוֹדֶה בְּכׇל הַתּוֹרָה כּוּלָּהּ.

The Gemara rejects that proof: No, actually I will say to you that a transgressor with regard to idol worship may not slaughter, as the Master said: Idol worship is a severe transgression, as with regard to anyone who denies it, it is as though he acknowledges his acceptance of the entire Torah. Conversely, with regard to one who accepts idolatry, it is as though he denies the entire Torah. Therefore, his halakhic status is that of a transgressor with regard to the entire Torah, and his slaughter is not valid.

Segment 9

אֶלָּא מְשׁוּמָּד לְאוֹתוֹ דָּבָר, וְכִדְרָבָא.

Rather, the transgressor in the latter clause of the baraita is a transgressor concerning the same matter of eating unslaughtered carcasses, and it is in accordance with the opinion of Rava, who said that one may rely on the slaughter of a transgressor with regard to eating unslaughtered animal carcasses to satisfy his appetite even ab initio .

Segment 10

מֵיתִיבִי: ״מִכֶּם״ – וְלֹא כּוּלְּכֶם, לְהוֹצִיא אֶת הַמְשׁוּמָּד. ״מִכֶּם״ – בָּכֶם חִלַּקְתִּי וְלֹא בְּאוּמּוֹת. ״מִן הַבְּהֵמָה״ – לְהָבִיא בְּנֵי אָדָם שֶׁדּוֹמִים לִבְהֵמָה. מִכָּאן אָמְרוּ: מְקַבְּלִין קׇרְבְּנוֹת מִפּוֹשְׁעֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל כְּדֵי שֶׁיַּחְזְרוּ בָּהֶן בִּתְשׁוּבָה, חוּץ מִן הַמְשׁוּמָּד, וּמְנַסֵּךְ אֶת הַיַּיִן, וּמְחַלֵּל שַׁבָּתוֹת בְּפַרְהֶסְיָא.

The Gemara raises an objection to the opinion of Rav Anan from that which is taught in a baraita with regard to the verse: “When any man of you brings an offering unto the Lord, from the animal” (Leviticus 1:2). The tanna infers: “Of you,” indicating: But not all of you. This serves to exclude the transgressor, from whom an offering is not accepted. The tanna continues: The term “of you” is also interpreted to mean that I distinguished among you and not among the nations. Therefore, a gentile may bring an offering even if he is an idol worshipper. The expression “from the animal” serves to include people who are similar to an animal in that they do not recognize God. From here, the Sages stated: One accepts offerings from Jewish transgressors so that they will consequently repent, except for the transgressor, one who pours wine as a libation to idolatry, and one who desecrates Shabbat in public [ befarhesya ].

Segment 11

הָא גוּפָא קַשְׁיָא, אָמְרַתְּ: ״מִכֶּם״ – וְלֹא כּוּלְּכֶם, לְהוֹצִיא אֶת הַמְשׁוּמָּד, וַהֲדַר תָּנֵי: מְקַבְּלִין קׇרְבָּנוֹת מִפּוֹשְׁעֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל!

This baraita itself is difficult. Initially, you said: “Of you,” indicating: But not all of you. This serves to exclude the transgressor, from whom an offering is not accepted. And then the tanna teaches: One accepts offerings from Jewish transgressors.

Segment 12

הָא לָא קַשְׁיָא, רֵישָׁא – מְשׁוּמָּד לְכׇל הַתּוֹרָה כּוּלָּהּ, מְצִיעֲתָא – מְשׁוּמָּד לְדָבָר אֶחָד.

The Gemara answers: This is not difficult. The first clause states that an offering is not accepted from a transgressor with regard to the entire Torah. The middle clause states that one accepts an offering from a transgressor with regard to one matter.

Segment 13

אֵימָא סֵיפָא: חוּץ מִן הַמְשׁוּמָּד וּמְנַסֵּךְ אֶת הַיַּיִן וּמְחַלֵּל שַׁבָּת בְּפַרְהֶסְיָא. הַאי מְשׁוּמָּד הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי מְשׁוּמָּד לְכׇל הַתּוֹרָה כּוּלָּהּ – הַיְינוּ רֵישָׁא, וְאִי מְשׁוּמָּד לְדָבָר אֶחָד – קַשְׁיָא מְצִיעֲתָא.

The Gemara challenges: Say the last clause: Except for the transgressor, and one who pours wine as a libation to idolatry, and one who desecrates Shabbat in public. With regard to this transgressor in the last clause, what are the circumstances? If the reference is to a transgressor with regard to the entire Torah, that is identical to the first clause: Of you, and not all of you, to exclude the transgressor. And if the reference is to a transgressor with regard to one matter, the middle clause is difficult, as it is stated there that one accepts an offering from a transgressor with regard to one matter.

Segment 14

אֶלָּא לָאו הָכִי קָאָמַר: חוּץ מִן הַמְשׁוּמָּד לְנַסֵּךְ אֶת הַיַּיִן וּלְחַלֵּל שַׁבָּתוֹת בְּפַרְהֶסְיָא, אַלְמָא מְשׁוּמָּד לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה הָוֵה מְשׁוּמָּד לְכׇל הַתּוֹרָה כּוּלָּהּ, וּתְיוּבְתָּא דְּרַב עָנָן, תְּיוּבְתָּא.

Rather, is it not that this is what the mishna is saying in the last clause: Except for the transgressor to pour wine as a libation to idolatry or to desecrate Shabbat in public? Apparently, a transgressor with regard to idol worship is a transgressor with regard to the entire Torah, and this baraita is a refutation of the opinion of Rav Anan. The Gemara concludes: It is indeed a conclusive refutation.

Segment 15

וְהָא מֵהָכָא נָפְקָא? מֵהָתָם נָפְקָא,

The Gemara asks: And is this halakha that one does not accept an offering from a transgressor derived from the verse cited here? It is derived from the verse written there with regard to a sin offering:

Chullin 5a

Chullin 5a

Rashi

Tosafot

Rashba

Ritva

Meiri

Maharsha (Chidushei Halachot)

Maharam

Penei Yehoshua

Ben Yehoyada

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