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Avodah Zarah 41b

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Babylonian Talmud · folio map

Avodah Zarah 41b

Avodah Zarah 41b. The full printed text of this folio side — 15 numbered segments, about 273 words — with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

Original text

Segment 1

וְהָא שְׁבָרִים נִינְהוּ! תַּרְגְּמַהּ שְׁמוּאֵל: בְּעוֹמְדִין עַל בְּסִיסָן.

But aren’t they fragments of idols, which are permitted according to Shmuel? The Gemara answers that Shmuel interpreted the mishna as follows: It is referring to a case where these objects that are in the figure of a hand or a foot are standing on their pedestals, which shows that they were designed this way initially and are not merely fragments.

Segment 2

אִתְּמַר: עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁנִּשְׁתַּבְּרָה מֵאֵילֶיהָ, רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: אֲסוּרָה, רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מוּתֶּרֶת.

§ It was stated: With regard to objects of idol worship that broke by themselves, Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is prohibited to derive benefit from them. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish says: It is permitted.

Segment 3

רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: אֲסוּרָה, דְּהָא לָא בָּטְלָה. רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ אָמַר: מוּתֶּרֶת, מִסְּתָמָא בַּטּוֹלֵי מְבַטֵּיל לַהּ, מֵימָר אָמַר: אִיהִי נַפְשַׁהּ לָא אַצְּלָה, לְהָהוּא גַּבְרָא מַצְּלָה לֵיהּ?

The Gemara explains the sides of the dispute. Rabbi Yoḥanan says that it is prohibited, as its owner did not revoke its status as an object of idol worship. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish says that it is permitted, as the owner presumably revoked its status as an object of idol worship, having said to himself: If the idol could not save even itself from harm, can it save that man, i.e., myself?

Segment 4

אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ: ״וְרֹאשׁ דָּגוֹן וּשְׁתֵּי כַּפּוֹת יָדָיו כְּרֻתוֹת וְגוֹ׳״, וּכְתִיב: ״עַל כֵּן לֹא יִדְרְכוּ כֹהֲנֵי דָגוֹן וְגוֹ׳״!

Rabbi Yoḥanan raised an objection to Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish from the passage in the book of Samuel recounting the downfall of the Philistine god Dagon: “And when they arose early the next morning, behold, Dagon was fallen on his face to the ground before the Ark of the Lord; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands lay cut off upon the threshold; only the trunk of Dagon was left to him” (I Samuel 5:4). And from the next verse it seems that Dagon’s worshippers accorded it honor despite its destruction, as it is written: “Therefore, the priests of Dagon, and anyone who comes into Dagon’s house, do not tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod until this day” (I Samuel 5:5). Evidently, when an idol breaks, its worshippers do not stop worshipping it.

Segment 5

אָמַר לוֹ: מִשָּׁם רְאָיָה? הָתָם שֶׁמַּנִּיחִין אֶת הַדָּגוֹן, וְעוֹבְדִין אֶת הַמִּפְתָּן, דְּאָמְרִי הָכִי: שַׁבְקֵיהּ אִיסָרֵיהּ לְדָגוֹן, וַאֲתָא אִיתֵּיב לֵיהּ עַל הַמִּפְתָּן.

Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said to him: Is there proof from there? There, the reason people did not tread on the threshold of Dagon is that they had abandoned their worship of the Dagon and would instead worship the threshold upon which Dagon was found, as they stated this reasoning: The spirit of Dagon has left the Dagon idol and instead it came and rested upon the threshold.

Segment 6

אֵיתִיבֵיהּ: הַמּוֹצֵא שִׁבְרֵי צְלָמִים — הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ מוּתָּרִין. הָא שִׁבְרֵי עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה — אֲסוּרִין!

Rabbi Yoḥanan raised another objection to Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish from the mishna: In the case of one who finds fragments of statues, these are permitted. This indicates that fragments of known objects of idol worship are forbidden.

Segment 7

לָא תֵּימָא שִׁבְרֵי עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה אֲסוּרִין, אֶלָּא אֵימָא: הָא צְלָמִים עַצְמָן אֲסוּרִין, וּסְתָמָא כְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר.

Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish replied: Do not say that the indication is that fragments of objects of idol worship are forbidden; rather say that the indication is that full statues themselves are forbidden, and the unattributed mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Meir, who, in the previous mishna, prohibits any statue as it is possible that it is worshipped annually.

Segment 8

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, מִדְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר נִשְׁמַע לְהוּ לְרַבָּנַן, לָאו אָמַר רַבִּי מֵאִיר: צְלָמִים אֲסוּרִין, שִׁבְרֵי צְלָמִים מוּתָּרִין, לְרַבָּנַן עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה נָמֵי הִיא אֲסוּרָה וּשְׁבָרֶיהָ מוּתָּרִין!

The Gemara asks: But how does Rabbi Yoḥanan refute the following logic: From the opinion of Rabbi Meir one can learn a detail with regard to the opinion of the Rabbis. Doesn’t Rabbi Meir say that statues are forbidden, while fragments of statues are permitted? From this, one can derive that this is true according to the Rabbis as well with regard to objects of idol worship: The object itself is forbidden, but its fragments are permitted.

Segment 9

הָכִי הַשְׁתָּא? הָתָם אֵימַר עֲבָדוּם אֵימַר לֹא עֲבָדוּם, וְאִם תִּמְצֵי לוֹמַר עֲבָדוּם — אֵימַר בִּטְּלוּם. עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה וַדַּאי עֲבָדוּהָ, מִי יֵימַר דְּבַטְּלֻהָ? הָוֵי סָפֵק וּוַדַּאי, וְאֵין סָפֵק מוֹצִיא מִידֵי וַדַּאי!

The Gemara rejects this comparison: How can these cases be compared? There, in the case of statues, the fragments are permitted because there is room to say that people worshipped them, and there is also room to say that people did not worship them; and even if you say that people worshipped them, there is room to say that their owners subsequently revoked them. This is not comparable to an object of idol worship, which people certainly worshipped, and who is to say that its owner certainly revoked it? It is a conflict between an uncertainty as to whether or not it was revoked, and a certainty that it was worshipped, and the principle is that an uncertainty does not override a certainty.

Segment 10

וְאֵין סָפֵק מוֹצִיא מִידֵי וַדַּאי? וְהָתַנְיָא: חָבֵר שֶׁמֵּת, וְהִנִּיחַ מְגוּרָה מְלֵאָה פֵּירוֹת, אֲפִילּוּ הֵן בְּנֵי יוֹמָן — הֲרֵי הֵן בְּחֶזְקַת מְתוּקָּנִין.

The Gemara asks: And does an uncertainty not override a certainty? But isn’t it taught in a baraita : In the case of a ḥaver who died and left a storehouse filled with produce, even if the produce was there only that day, it has the presumptive status of produce that was ritually prepared, i.e., properly tithed. This is due to the presumption that the ḥaver tithed the produce himself or instructed others to do so.

Segment 11

וְהָא הָכָא דְּוַדַּאי טְבִילִי, סָפֵק עַשְּׂרִינְהוּ, סָפֵק לָא עַשְּׂרִינְהוּ, וְקָאָתֵי סָפֵק וּמוֹצִיא מִידֵי וַדַּאי!

The Gemara infers: And here, in this case, the produce was certainly untithed at the outset, and there is uncertainty whether the ḥaver tithed it, and there is uncertainty whether he did not tithe it, and despite this conflict, the uncertainty whether it was tithed comes and overrides the certainty that it was untithed produce.

Segment 12

הָתָם וַדַּאי וּוַדַּאי הוּא, דְּוַדַּאי עַשְּׂרִינְהוּ, כִּדְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא חוֹזָאָה, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי חֲנִינָא חוֹזָאָה: חֲזָקָה עַל חָבֵר שֶׁאֵינוֹ מוֹצִיא דָּבָר שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְתוּקָּן מִתַּחַת יָדוֹ.

The Gemara rejects this claim: There, in that case, conflict is between certainty and certainty, as the ḥaver certainly tithed the produce. This presumption is in accordance with the statement of Rabbi Ḥanina Ḥoza’a; as Rabbi Ḥanina Ḥoza’a says: There is a presumption with regard to a ḥaver that he does not release an item from his possession that is not ritually prepared.

Segment 13

וְאִי בָּעֵית אֵימָא: מֵעִיקָּרָא לָא טְבִילִי, סָפֵק וְסָפֵק הוּא.

And if you wish, say instead that perhaps the produce did not initially have the status of untithed produce, and therefore the conflict is between uncertainty and uncertainty.

Segment 14

אֶפְשָׁר דַּעֲבַד כִּדְרַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא, דְּאָמַר: מַעֲרִים אָדָם עַל תְּבוּאָתוֹ וּמַכְנִיסָהּ בַּמּוֹץ שֶׁלָּהּ, כְּדֵי שֶׁתְּהֵא בְּהֶמְתּוֹ אוֹכֶלֶת וּפְטוּרָה מִן הַמַּעֲשֵׂר.

This is because it is possible that there was never an obligation to tithe the produce, as the ḥaver may have acted in accordance with the statement of Rabbi Oshaya, who says that a person can employ artifice to circumvent obligations incumbent upon him in dealing with his grain, and bring it into his courtyard in its chaff so that his animal may eat from it. And this grain is exempt from tithes. Although the obligation to tithe produce that has been fully processed applies even to animal fodder, it is permitted to feed one’s animal untithed produce that has not been fully processed. In light of this halakha it is possible that the produce in the storehouse of the ḥaver never needed to be tithed. Consequently, this case is a conflict between two uncertain factors, as it is uncertain whether or not the owner was obligated to tithe the produce in the first place, and even if he was required to do so, it is uncertain whether or not he tithed it.

Segment 15

וְאֵין סָפֵק מוֹצִיא מִידֵי וַדַּאי? וְהָתַנְיָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה: מַעֲשֶׂה בְּשִׁפְחָתוֹ

The Gemara raises another objection: And is it so that an uncertainty does not override a certainty? But isn’t it taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yehuda said: There was an incident involving the maidservant

Avodah Zarah 41b

Avodah Zarah 41b

Rashi

Tosafot

Rabbeinu Chananel

Ritva

Meiri

Maharsha (Chidushei Halachot)

Maharam

Gilyon HaShas

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