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Avodah Zarah 35a

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Babylonian Talmud · folio map

Avodah Zarah 35a

Avodah Zarah 35a. The full printed text of this folio side — 15 numbered segments, about 258 words — with the classic commentaries printed on the page.

Original text

Segment 1

מִכְּלָל דְּאִיסּוּרֵי הֲנָאָה שָׁרוּ פִּרְשַׁיְיהוּ.

One can learn by inference from here that with regard to animals from which deriving benefit is prohibited, their excrement, which is the content of their stomach, is permitted. Although deriving benefit from both a burnt-offering and an unslaughtered animal carcass is prohibited, the excrement of each is permitted. Similarly, although deriving benefit from an ox that is to be stoned is prohibited, its excrement is permitted.

Segment 2

וּמִדְּקָאָמַר לֵיהּ מִפְּנֵי שֶׁמַּעֲמִידִין אוֹתָהּ בְּקֵיבַת עֶגְלֵי עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה, וְקָא מַהְדַּר לֵיהּ: אִם כֵּן לָמָּה לֹא אֲסָרוּהָ בַּהֲנָאָה — מִכְּלָל דַּעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה אֲסִיר פִּרְשַׁיְיהוּ.

And from the fact that Rabbi Yehoshua said to Rabbi Yishmael: Cheese of gentiles is prohibited because they curdle it with the stomach contents of calves used for idol worship, and that Rabbi Yishmael responded to him: If that is so, why didn’t the Sages prohibit deriving benefit from the cheese, one may learn by inference that with regard to animals of idol worship, their excrement is prohibited. Since the cheese formed with the stomach contents of an animal of idol worship is prohibited, it is evident that the excrement formed in the stomach of such an animal is also prohibited.

Segment 3

וְלַהְדַּר לֵיהּ, מִשּׁוּם דְּלֵיתֵיהּ לְאִיסּוּרָא בְּעֵינֵיהּ!

The mishna related that rather than addressing Rabbi Yishmael’s final difficulty, Rabbi Yehoshua diverted his attention to another matter. The Gemara inquires: But let him respond to Rabbi Yishmael’s query by explaining that the Sages did not prohibit deriving benefit from cheese curdled in the stomach contents of an animal used for idolatry because there is no substantive prohibited entity in such cheese.

Segment 4

דְּהָא מוּרְיָיס, לְרַבָּנַן דְּלָא אַסְרוּהּ בַּהֲנָאָה, מַאי טַעְמָא? לָאו מִשּׁוּם דְּלֵיתֵיהּ לְאִיסּוּרָא בְּעֵינֵיהּ?

The Gemara reinforces its question: After all, isn’t the halakha with regard to fish stew, according to the opinion of the Rabbis, an application of this rationale, as they did not prohibit deriving benefit from fish stew prepared by a gentile? What is the reason for this leniency? Is it not because there is no substantive prohibited entity in it? Although fish stew may contain the wine of a gentile, deriving benefit from it is not prohibited because the wine is not discernible. Why didn’t Rabbi Yehoshua explain that deriving benefit from cheese of a gentile is similarly permitted because it contains no substantive prohibited entity?

Segment 5

אָמְרִי: הָכָא, כֵּיוָן דְּאוֹקֹמֵיה קָא מוֹקֵים, חֲשִׁיב לֵיהּ כְּמַאן דְּאִיתֵיהּ לְאִיסּוּרֵיהּ בְּעֵינֵיהּ.

The Gemara rejects this possibility: The Sages say in response that here, with regard to cheese, since the rennet curdles it, it is considered like an item that contains a substantive prohibited entity. Although the prohibited rennet is not discernible in the cheese, it is nevertheless considered a substantive prohibited entity because it is essential to the formation of the cheese.

Segment 6

הִשִּׂיאוֹ לְדָבָר אַחֵר וְכוּ׳. מַאי ״כִּי טוֹבִים דֹּדֶיךָ מִיָּיִן״? כִּי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר: אָמְרָה כְּנֶסֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל לִפְנֵי הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא: רִבּוֹנוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם, עֲרֵיבִים עָלַי דִּבְרֵי דוֹדֶיךָ יוֹתֵר מִיֵּינָהּ שֶׁל תּוֹרָה.

§ The mishna teaches that Rabbi Yehoshua diverted Rabbi Yishmael’s attention to another matter, and began discussing the verse: “For your love is better than wine” (Song of Songs 1:2). The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the verse: “For your love [ dodekha ] is better than wine”? When Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia, he said: The congregation of Israel said before the Holy One, Blessed be He: Master of the Universe, the statements of Your beloved ones [ dodekha ], i.e., the Sages, are more pleasant to me than the wine of the written Torah itself.

Segment 7

מַאי שְׁנָא הַאי קְרָא דְּשַׁיְילֵיהּ? אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן פַּזִּי, וְאִיתֵּימָא רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בַּר אַמֵּי: מֵרֵישֵׁיהּ דִּקְרָא קָאָמַר לֵיהּ, ״יִשָּׁקֵנִי מִנְּשִׁיקוֹת פִּיהוּ״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: יִשְׁמָעֵאל אָחִי, חֲשׁוֹק שִׂפְתוֹתֶיךָ זוֹ בָּזוֹ וְאַל תִּבָּהֵל לְהָשִׁיב.

The Gemara asks: What is different about this verse that led Rabbi Yehoshua to ask Rabbi Yishmael a question specifically with regard to it? Rabbi Shimon ben Pazi said, and some say Rabbi Shimon bar Ami said: He chose that verse because he sought to tell him a message that can be derived from the beginning of the verse: “Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth” (Song of Songs 1:2). In essence, Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Yishmael, my brother, press your lips one to the other, and do not be so hasty to retort, i.e., do not persist in your questioning.

Segment 8

מַאי טַעְמָא? אָמַר עוּלָּא, וְאִיתֵּימָא רַב שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר אַבָּא: גְּזֵרָה חֲדָשָׁה הִיא, וְאֵין מְפַקְפְּקִין בַּהּ. מַאי גְּזֵירְתָּא? אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן פַּזִּי אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי: מִשּׁוּם נִיקּוּר.

The Gemara asks: What is the reason that Rabbi Yehoshua instructed Rabbi Yishmael not to question him further? Ulla says, and some say Rav Shmuel bar Abba says: The ordinance prohibiting the cheese of gentiles was a new decree, and therefore one does not scrutinize its origins. The Gemara asks: What was, in fact, the reason for the Sages’ decree prohibiting the cheese of gentiles? Rabbi Shimon ben Pazi says that Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: It was due to the concern for puncturing, i.e., the concern that a snake might have deposited its venom in the cheese, as gentiles are not assumed to be careful about this.

Segment 9

וְלֵימָא לֵיהּ מִשּׁוּם נִיקּוּר! כִּדְעוּלָּא, דְּאָמַר עוּלָּא: כִּי גָּזְרִי גְּזֵירְתָּא בְּמַעְרְבָא לָא מְגַלּוּ טַעְמָא עַד תְּרֵיסַר יַרְחֵי שַׁתָּא, דִּלְמָא אִיכָּא אִינִישׁ דְּלָא סְבִירָא לֵיהּ וְאָתֵי לְזַלְזוֹלֵי בַּהּ.

The Gemara comments: But if so, let Rabbi Yehoshua simply say to Rabbi Yishmael: It is prohibited due to the concern for puncturing. Why did he choose to avoid answering? The Gemara explains: Rabbi Yehoshua reasoned in accordance with a statement of Ulla, as Ulla said: When the Sages decreed a decree in the West, Eretz Yisrael, they would not reveal the reason behind it until twelve months of the year had passed, lest there be a person who does not agree with it and will come to treat it with contempt.

Segment 10

מְגַדֵּף בַּהּ רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, יְבֵשָׁה תִּשְׁתְּרֵי, יָשָׁן תִּשְׁתְּרֵי! דְּאָמַר רַבִּי חֲנִינָא: יָבֵשׁ מוּתָּר, אֵין מַנִּיחוֹ לְיַבֵּשׁ, יָשָׁן מוּתָּר, אֵין מַנִּיחוֹ לְיַשֵּׁן.

Rabbi Yirmeya would ridicule [ megaddef ] Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi’s explanation that the prohibition was due to the concern for puncturing: If that is so, dry cheese should be permitted, and likewise aged cheese should be permitted, as Rabbi Ḥanina says: With regard to exposure, a dry substance is permitted even if it was originally in the form of an uncovered liquid, because a snake’s venom does not let it dry, i.e., congeal. And an aged liquid is permitted, as a snake’s venom does not let it age, as it causes it to spoil instead.

Segment 11

אָמַר רַבִּי חֲנִינָא: לְפִי שֶׁאִי אֶפְשָׁר לָהּ בְּלֹא צִחְצוּחֵי חָלָב, וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁמַּעֲמִידִין אוֹתָהּ בְּעוֹר קֵיבַת נְבֵילָה.

The Gemara presents two alternative reasons for this decree of the Sages. Rabbi Ḥanina says: The cheese is prohibited because it is not possible for it to have been made without containing particles of non-kosher milk. And Shmuel says: The cheese is prohibited because it is curdled with the skin of the stomach of an unslaughtered animal carcass.

Segment 12

הָא קֵיבָה גּוּפָא שַׁרְיָא, וּמִי אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל הָכִי? וְהָתְנַן: קֵיבַת הַגּוֹי וְשֶׁל נְבֵילָה — הֲרֵי זוֹ אֲסוּרָה,

The Gemara comments: Shmuel’s statement indicates that only the skin of the animal’s stomach is prohibited, whereas the contents of the stomach, i.e., the rennet itself, is permitted. The Gemara asks: And did Shmuel actually say this? But didn’t we learn in a mishna ( Ḥullin 116a): With regard to the stomach contents of an animal slaughtered by a gentile and the stomach contents of an unslaughtered animal carcass, each of these is prohibited.

Segment 13

וְהָוֵינַן בַּהּ, אַטּוּ דְּגוֹי לָאו נְבֵלָה הִיא?

And we discussed it and asked: Why does the mishna mention both an animal slaughtered by a gentile and an unslaughtered animal carcass? Is that to say that an animal slaughtered by a gentile is not classified as an animal carcass? By mentioning each of these separately, the mishna indicates that generally they are subject to different halakhot . This is difficult, as an animal slaughtered by a gentile has the halakhic status of an unslaughtered animal carcass.

Segment 14

וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: חֲדָא קָתָנֵי, קֵיבַת שְׁחִיטַת גּוֹי — נְבֵלָה אֲסוּרָה!

And in answer to this difficulty, Shmuel says: The mishna is in fact teaching a single halakha , which is that the stomach contents of an animal slaughtered by a gentile are considered to be like the stomach contents of an unslaughtered animal carcass and are therefore prohibited. Earlier, Shmuel asserted that only the physical skin of an animal’s stomach is prohibited, which indicates that the stomach contents are permitted. In his explanation of the mishna in Ḥullin , Shmuel posits that the stomach contents of an unslaughtered animal are prohibited.

Segment 15

לָא קַשְׁיָא.

The Gemara explains that this is not difficult:

Avodah Zarah 35a

Avodah Zarah 35a

Rashi

Tosafot

Rabbeinu Chananel

Rashba

Ritva

Meiri

Maharsha (Chidushei Halachot)

Maharam

Ben Yehoyada

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