Bekhorot 8b

מִי כְּתִיב ״מִכׇּל הַחַיָּה וּמִכׇּל הַבְּהֵמָה״? ״מִכׇּל הַבְּהֵמָה וּמִכֹּל הַחַיָּה״ כְּתִיב! אָרוּר הוּא מִבְּהֵמָה שֶׁנִּתְקַלְּלָה מֵחַיָּה.

The Gemara responds: Is it written: Cursed are you from among all beasts, and from among all animals? No, it is written: “From among all animals, and from among all beasts,” meaning that it is cursed from among the domesticated animals, which were cursed from among the undomesticated animals.

וְאֵימָא: כְּשֵׁם שֶׁנִּתְקַלְּלָה בְּהֵמָה מֵחַיָּה אֶחָד לְשָׁלֹשׁ, וּמַאי נִיהוּ? עֵז מֵחָתוּל, כָּךְ נִתְקַלֵּל הוּא מִבְּהֵמָה אֶחָד לְשָׁלֹשׁ, דְּהָוֵה לֵיהּ חֲמֵיסַר יַרְחֵי!

The Gemara challenges: Why must it mean that the snake was cursed more than the donkey in the same proportion that the donkey was cursed more than the cat? But say instead that just as the domesticated animals were cursed more than the undomesticated animals by a measure of one to three; the Gemara interjects: And in what case is that? It is in the case of a goat, whose gestation period is five months, compared to a cat, whose gestation period is fifty-two days. The Gemara continues its challenge: So too, the snake was cursed more than the domesticated animals, i.e., the goat, by a proportion of one to three, which is fifteen months.

אִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: ״מִכׇּל הַבְּהֵמָה״ כְּתִיב. אִי בָּעֵית אֵימָא: קְלָלָה הוּא, קְלָלָה שְׁדִי עִילָּוֵיהּ.

The Gemara answers: If you wish, say that it is written: “Cursed are you from among all animals,” including the most accursed of them, i.e., the donkey. If you wish, say instead that since it is a curse that the snake received here, the verse imposes upon it the most extreme curse that can be derived from the text.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ קֵיסָר לְרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן חֲנַנְיָה: נָחָשׁ לְכַמָּה מִיעַבַּר וּמוֹלֵיד? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לְשַׁב שְׁנֵי. וְהָא סָבֵי דְּבֵי אַתּוּנָא אַרְבְּעִינְהוּ, וְאוֹלִיד לִתְלָת! הָנְהוּ מִיעַבְּרִי הֲווֹ מֵעִיקָּרָא אַרְבַּע. וְהָא קָמְשַׁמְּשִׁי שַׁמּוֹשֵׁי! אִינְהוּ נָמֵי מְשַׁמְּשִׁי כְּאָדָם.

§ With regard to the gestation time of a snake, the Gemara relates that the Roman emperor said to Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya: In the case of a snake, after how long a period of gestation does it give birth? Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya said to him: After seven years. The emperor said to him: But the elders, i.e., the sages, of the school of Athens bred snakes and they gave birth after three years. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya responded: Those snakes were already pregnant from beforehand for four years. The emperor asked: But they engaged in intercourse, and animals do so only in order to give birth, not when they are already pregnant. Rabbi Yehoshua responded: Snakes also engage in intercourse like people, i.e., they do not do so solely for reproduction.

וְהָא חַכִּימֵי אִינְהוּ? אֲנַן חֲכִימִינַן מִינַּיְיהוּ. אִי חֲכִימַתְּ, זִיל זַכִּינְהוּ וְאַיְתִינְהוּ לִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כַּמָּה הָווּ? שִׁיתִּין גַּבְרֵי.

The emperor said to him: But how can you disagree with the sages of Athens? Aren’t they wise? Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya responded: We are wiser than they. The emperor said: If you are wiser than they, then go defeat them in debate and bring them to me. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: How many are there? The emperor answered: Sixty men.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: עֲבֵיד לִי סְפִינְתָּא דְּאִית בַּהּ שִׁיתִּין בָּתֵּי, וְכֹל בֵּיתָא אִית בַּהּ שִׁיתִּין בִּיסְתַּרְקֵי. עֲבַד לֵיהּ. כִּי מְטָא לְהָתָם לְבֵי טַבָּחָא, אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ לְהָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּקָא פָשֵׁיט חֵיוְתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: רֵישָׁךְ לְזַבּוֹנֵי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִין. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּכַמָּה? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בְּפַלְגָא דְּזוּזָא. יְהַב לֵיהּ.

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya said to him: Construct a ship that has sixty rooms for me, and each room should have sixty mattresses [ bistarkei ] in it. The emperor constructed it for him. Rabbi Yehoshua then set out on the ship for Athens. When he arrived there, he entered a butcher shop and found a certain man, the butcher, flaying an animal. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Is your head for sale? The butcher said to him: Yes it is. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: For how much is it being sold? The butcher said to him: For half a dinar. Rabbi Yehoshua gave him the money.

לְסוֹף, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֲנָא רֵישָׁא דְּחֵיוְתָא אֲמַרִי לָךְ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִי בָּעֵית דְּאֶשְׁבְּקָךְ סַגִּי אַחְוִי לִי פִּיתְחָא דְּבֵי אַתּוּנָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִסְתְּפֵינָא דְּכֹל דְּמַחְוֵי קָטְלִי לֵיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: דְּרִי כְּרִיכָא דִּקְנֵיא, וְכִי מָטֵית לְהָתָם זִקְפֵהּ כְּמַאן דְּקָא מִתְּפַח.

After Rabbi Yehoshua paid the butcher, he said to him: Did I say to you that I wanted the head of the animal? I was referring to your head, and you must now keep your word and give me your head. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: If you wish for me to let you be, go and show me the entrance to the school of the sages of Athens. The butcher said to him: I am afraid, as they kill anyone who shows its location to another. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Carry a bundle of reeds, and when you arrive there, stand it up like one who is resting, to mark the location. The butcher did this, and Rabbi Yehoshua successfully found the entrance.

אַשְׁכַּח דַּרְבְּנָאֵי מִגַּוַּאי וְדַרְבְּנָאֵי מִבָּרַאי, דְּאִי חָזוּ כַּרְעָא דְּעָיְילָא — קָטְלִי לְהוּ לְבָרַאי, וּדְנָפְקָא — קָטְלִי לְהוּ לְגַוַּאי.

Rabbi Yehoshua found guards stationed on the inside and guards stationed on the outside to ensure that no one could enter or exit. They also spread sand on the ground in the entranceway so that they could detect if anyone entered or left. If they saw footsteps that were entering they would kill the outer guards for allowing people to enter, and if they saw footsteps that were exiting they would kill the inner guards for allowing people to leave.

אַפְכֵהּ לְסַנְדָּלֵיהּ — קָטְלִי לְהוּ לְגַוָּאֵי, אַפְכֵהּ לְסַנְדָּלֵיהּ — קָטְלִי לְהוּ לְכוּלְּהוּ.

Rabbi Yehoshua reversed his sandal so it was facing away from the entrance, walked on the sand, and snuck away, thereby creating the appearance of someone who had left the building. When the authorities saw the footsteps, they killed the inner guards. Rabbi Yehoshua then returned, reversed his sandal, and made footsteps in the sand indicating that someone had entered the building. They then killed all the guards, including the outer ones, and Rabbi Yehoshua succeeded in entering the building.

אַשְׁכַּח יָנוֹקֵי מִלְּעֵיל, סָבֵי מִלְּתַחַת. אֲמַר: אִי יָהֵיבְנָא שְׁלָמָא לְהָנֵי, קָטְלִי לִי הָנֵי, סָבְרִי: אֲנַן עֲדִיפִינַן, דַּאֲנַן קַשִּׁינַן טְפֵי וְאִינְהוּ דַּרְדַּקֵּי.

Rabbi Yehoshua found the younger sages sitting in the upper, more prominent section, and the elder ones in the lower section. He said to himself: I must first greet the younger sages, as they are sitting in the upper section, prior to the elder sages; but if I greet these younger sages first, those elder sages will kill me, as they maintain: We are better, because we are older and they are children.

אֲמַר: שְׁלָמָא לְכוּ. אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: מַאי עֲבִידְתָּיךְ? אֲמַר לְהוּ: אֲנָא חַכִּימָא דִיהוּדָאֵי אֲנָא, בָּעֵינָא לְמִיגְמַר חֻכְמְתָא מִינַּיְיכוּ. אִי הָכִי, נִיבְעֵי לָךְ! אֲמַר לְהוּ: לְחַיֵּי, אִי זָכֵיתוּ — כֹּל דְּבָעֵיתוּ עֲבִידוּ בִּי, וְאִי זָכֵינָא בְּכוּ — אִיכְלוּ גַּבַּאי בִּסְפִינְתָּא.

Rabbi Yehoshua said: Greetings to you, but did not directly address either group. They said to him: What are you doing here? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: I am a Sage of the Jews, and I desire to learn wisdom from you. They said to him: If so, we will ask you questions and see if you are worthy of this privilege. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Very well. If you win, you may do to me anything you wish, and if I defeat you, then eat with me on my ship.

אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: הַהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּאָזֵיל וּבָעֵי אִתְּתָא וְלָא יָהֲבוּ לֵיהּ, מַאי חֲזֵי לֵיהּ דְּאָזֵיל הֵיכָא דְּמִדְּלוּ מִינָּיהּ? שְׁקַל סִיכְּתָא, דָּצַהּ לְתַתַּאי — לָא עָאל, לְעִילַּאי — עָאל. אֲמַר: הַאי נָמֵי מִיתְרְמֵי בַּת מַזָּלֵיהּ.

The sages of Athens said to him: In the case of a certain man who goes and asks to marry a woman and her family does not give her to him, why would he see fit to go to a family that is greater than the first? Rabbi Yehoshua took a peg and stuck it into the lower part of the wall, but it did not go in. He then stuck it into the upper portion of the wall where there was a hole, and it went in. He said to them: In this case too, where he goes to a more distinguished family than the first, perhaps he will find the girl destined for him.

גַּבְרָא דְּאוֹזֵיף וְטָרֵיף, מַאי חֲזָא דַּהֲדַר אוֹזֵיף? אֲמַר לְהוּ: גַּבְרָא אֲזַל לְאַגְמָא, קְטַל קַמָּא טוּנָא וְלָא מָצֵי בֵּיהּ, קָטֵיל וּמַנַּח עִילָּוֵיהּ, עַד (דְּאִיתְרְמִי) [דְּמִיתְרְמֵי] אִינִישׁ מַדְלֵי לֵיהּ.

The sages of Athens asked him another question: In the case of a man who lends money to an individual and the borrower does not repay the loan, and the lender repossesses the borrower’s property as payment instead, why would he see fit to lend to others again? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: This is what people do: If a man goes to the pond, initially cuts a bundle of reeds, but finds that he cannot lift it, he does not stop cutting wood. Instead, he cuts more wood and places it upon the first, until a person happens to pass by and helps him raise it upon his shoulders, so that he can carry it home. So too, a person continues to lend based on the assumption that he will eventually find an appropriate borrower.

אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: אֵימָא לַן מִילֵּי דִּבְדִיאִי! אֲמַר לְהוּ: הֲוָה הַהִוא כּוּדַנְיְתָא דִּילִידָא, וַהֲוָה תְּלֵי לֵיהּ פִּיתְקָא, וּכְתַב בֵּיהּ דְּמַסֵּיק בְּבֵי אַבָּא מְאָה אַלְפָּא זוּזֵי. אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: וְכוּדַנְיְתָא מִי יָלְדָה? אֲמַר לְהוּ: (הֵי נִיהוּ) [הָנֵי נִינְהוּ] מִילֵּי דִבְדִיאִי.

The sages of Athens said to him: Say to us a matter of nonsense. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: There was a certain mule that gave birth, and a note was hanging on the newborn mule’s neck and on it was written that it is owed 100,000 dinars by its father’s household. They said to him: But can a mule give birth? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: This is why it is a matter of nonsense, as it is impossible for a mule to give birth.

מִילְחָא כִּי סָרְיָא, בְּמַאי מָלְחִי לַהּ? אֲמַר לְהוּ: בְּסִילְתָּא דְכוּדַנְיְתָא. וּמִי אִיכָּא סִילְתָּא לְכוּדַנְתָּא? וּמִילְחָא מִי סְרֵי?

The sages of Athens then asked another question: When salt is spoiling, with what does one salt it to preserve it? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: With the placenta of a mule. They said to him: But is there a placenta of a mule? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: And does salt spoil?

בְּנִי לַן בֵּיתָא בַּאֲוִירָא דְּעָלְמָא! אָמַר שֵׁם, תְּלָא בֵּין רְקִיעָא לְאַרְעָא. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַסִּיקוּ לִי לִיבְנֵי וְטִינָא. מְצִיעֲתֵיהּ דְּעָלְמָא הֵיכָא? זַקְפַהּ לְאֶצְבַּעְתֵּיהּ, אֲמַר לְהוּ: הָכָא. אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: וּמִי יֵימַר? אַיְיתוֹ אַשְׁלֵי וּמְשַׁחוּ.

They said to him: Build us a house in the air of the world. Rabbi Yehoshua uttered a Name of God and hovered between the sky and the earth. He said to them: Bring up to me bricks and mortar and I will build you a house here. They asked him: Where is the center of the world? Rabbi Yehoshua raised his finger and said to them: Here. They said to him: And who says that you are correct? He said to them: Bring ropes and measure.

אִית לַן בֵּירָא בְּדַבְרָא, עַיְילֵאּ לְמָתָא! אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַפְשִׁילוּ לִי חַבְלֵי מִפָּארֵי וַאֲעַיְּילֵיהּ. אִית לַן רִיחְיָא דִּתְבִירָא, חַיְּיטַיהּ. אֲמַר: כְּרוּכוּ לִי מִינַּיהּ גַּרְדֵי וְאִיחַיְּיטַיהּ.

They said to him: We have a pit in the field; bring it to the city. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Braid ropes made of bran for me and I will bring it to the city with them. They then said to him: We have a mill that broke; sew it back together. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Pull out threads from the mill for me and I will sew them together.

מְשָׁרָא דְּסַכִּינֵי בְּמַאי קָטְלִי? בְּקַרְנָא דַּחֲמָרָא. וּמִי אִיכָּא קַרְנָא לַחֲמָרָא? וּמִי אִיכָּא מְשָׁרָא דְּסַכִּינֵי?

They asked him another question: With what does one harvest a field of knives? Rabbi Yehoshua answered: With the horn of a donkey. They said to him: But is there such an item as a horn of a donkey? He said to them: But is there such a thing as a field of knives?

אַיְיתוֹ לֵיהּ תְּרֵי בֵּיעֵי, אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: הֵי דְּזַגְתָּא אוּכַּמְתִּי וְהֵי דְּזַגְתָּא חִיוַּורְתִּי? אַיְיתִי לְהוּ אִיהוּ תְּרֵי גְּבִינֵי, אֲמַר לְהוּ: הֵי דְּעִיזָּא אוּכַּמְתִּי וְהֵי דְּעִיזָּא חִיוַּורְתִּי?

They brought him two eggs and said to him: Which is the egg of a black hen and which is the egg of a white hen? Rabbi Yehoshua brought them two cheeses, and said to them: Which is the cheese from the black goat and which is from the white goat?

וַרְצוּצָא דְּמִית, מֵהֵיכָא נָפֵיק רוּחֵיהּ? מֵהֵיכָא דְּעָל נְפַק. אַחְוִי לַן מָנָא דְּלָא שָׁוֵי חֲבִילֵיהּ! אַיְיתִי (כֹּל חַד וְחַד) בּוּדְיָא, פַּשְׁטֵיהּ. לָא הֲוָה עָיֵיל בְּתַרְעָא. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אַיְיתוֹ מָרֵי סִיתְרוּהּ. הַיְינוּ מָנָא דְּלָא שָׁוֵי חֲבִילֵיהּ.

They asked him: And in the case of a chick that dies inside the egg, from where does its spirit exit? Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: From where it enters, it departs. They said to him: Show us a utensil that is not worth the damage that it causes. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Each one of you bring a mat and spread it out. When they did so, each mat did not enter the gate due to its size. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Bring axes and break the gate so that you can bring it inside. This is a utensil that is not worth its damage.

אַיְתִינְהוּ כֹּל חַד וְחַד, כִּי חָזֵי שִׁיתִּין בִּיסְתַּרְקֵי, אָמַר: כּוּלְּהוּ חַבְרַאי לְהָכָא אָתוּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ לְסָפוֹנָא: שְׁרִי סְפִינְתָּךְ. בַּהֲדֵי דְּקָאָתוּ שְׁקַל עַפְרָא מֵעַפְרַיְיהוּ.

§ After Rabbi Yehoshua defeated the sages of Athens in debate, he brought them to his ship as they had agreed. He then brought each one to a different room. When each one saw the sixty mattresses in his room, he said to himself: All of my colleagues are coming here, and waited for them without attempting to leave. Rabbi Yehoshua said to the sailor: Release your ship, i.e., begin sailing. While they were coming to the emperor in Rome, he took out some dirt that he had taken from the dirt of Athens.